NetJets To Picket

[wacoflyr]

The only questions I've never answered have been personal in nature.

I can state that this is not true. You have often failed to answer direct questions that had nothing to do with you, but rather with the running of aviation companies. I have had to browbeat you to get any answers at all.

Furthermore, your arguments and comments over the years have been more one sided and narrow minded than almost any other poster that I can recall. I don't work for a union shop. I'm glad of that, but I'm also wary. I don't believe we need a union now, but we might some day in the future. I hope not. But if ever we were to need a union it would be because of attitudes such as yours. You do far, far more to further the argument for a union than you seem to realize. I believe that you are personally responsible for convincing many a pilot to send in his or her card over the years, and you may have just tipped the balance at both Flight Options and Citation Air.

Probably not. This is just one board, and there are less than one hundred active posters here, so maybe you don't really have that much influence. What influence you do have though, is pro-union.

Wacoflyr

 

[G4dude]

B19

None of my opinions have been affected by B19, although he does tend to agree with me. My feelings about unions were formed by my family's proximity to Eastern when I was younger. My Dad was a Delta employee, and we always were friends with Eastern ticket agents in the several cities we lived. They hated their company, did every thing they could to hurt it, and were successful in the end. If I hated my employer that much, I would have found a job elsewhere, not destroyed the company from within. My pilot friends from EAL told me of Borman's exhaustion as he tried his best to save the company. He was squeezed by the behavior of the employees on the one hand and the marketplace on the other. As a 30 year old in Ft. Lauderdale, I watched in amazement as the machinists ruined EAL. It was obvious they would do so, but they kept right on anyway, like lemmings stampeding all the other lemmings over the proverbial cliff. So I worry about unions, and hope for the best. My union does not think or speak for me. I think and speak for myself. I should print a T shirt, huh? If have REALLY enjoyed this conversation, however. My wife thinks I should spend less time here, by the way. Brokeflyer agrees, I suspect.

 

[fischman]

Hansell does make me nervous for a different reason. Is there any part of his background and experience that has prepared him to run a company like NJA? I haven't taken the time to research his career, does anyone know anything about him?

Hansell is completely unqualified to be the CEO of a luxury private jet company. I have NO business leadership experience, but at least I am familiar with our industry.

Hansell is a lawyer who excelled at his firm because his daddy was a partner there. Here's a link to the firm's website: http://www.nyemaster.com/

Here is an article from Businessweek.com that has a nice summary of Hansell. Something I noted as I read the article is that the quotes are from Ed Hansell, Jordan's daddy. "Hansell, whose resume includes a clerkship with Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, distinguished himself in Iowa with legal discipline and an involvement in government, according to his father Ed Hansell, who practices business law." Awww.... Isn't that nice. I'm sure that a letter of recommendation from his father holds a lot of weight. http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...sell-netjets-ceo-two-years-from-law-firm.html

Something of note from the law firm's site,
"Our Practice:
Our lawyers represent clients in employment and labor matters throughout Iowa and surrounding states. We have represented clients in all state and federal courts, as well as a variety of administrative agencies. Nyemaster Goode lawyers defended the first sexual harassment jury trial in Iowa's federal courts and the first AIDS discrimination jury trial in Iowa. Even so, a hallmark of our practice is the commitment to help clients avoid litigation through counseling and prevention efforts. The type of matters our lawyers routinely handle include employment litigation, collective bargaining, contract administration, labor arbitration, trade secret and non-competition litigation, union avoidance, organizational campaigns, NLRB proceedings, OSHA compliance and enforcement, affirmative action plan design and development, employment counseling and risk avoidance, and immigration."

Here is a link to this paragraph so you can see that I didn't make this up: http://www.nyemaster.com/aspx/practice_areas.aspx?lid=3

If you read Confessions of a Union Buster you will see that this is the type of firm that Martin Levitt made a handsome living destroying families. Also, if you read on the union website, you'll learn that NetJets CEO was directly confronted with this information and DENIED this information even though it is RIGHT THERE!!! In other words, he...

 

[B19 Flyer]

I can state that this is not true. You have often failed to answer direct questions that had nothing to do with you, but rather with the running of aviation companies. I have had to browbeat you to get any answers at all.

Furthermore, your arguments and comments over the years have been more one sided and narrow minded than almost any other poster that I can recall. I don't work for a union shop. I'm glad of that, but I'm also wary. I don't believe we need a union now, but we might some day in the future. I hope not. But if ever we were to need a union it would be because of attitudes such as yours. You do far, far more to further the argument for a union than you seem to realize. I believe that you are personally responsible for convincing many a pilot to send in his or her card over the years, and you may have just tipped the balance at both Flight Options and Citation Air.

Probably not. This is just one board, and there are less than one hundred active posters here, so maybe you don't really have that much influence. What influence you do have though, is pro-union.

Wacoflyr

I can assure you that my opinions are mirrored by every single member of manager/senior leadership in aviation.

They do exactly as I did when I was in the middle of managing in union environments. They grin and bear it, and cuss the ground unions walk on every minute of the day because of the path of destruction unions leave behind. I've been in the middle of some of the most significant union action in aviation over the last 20 years and not a single union member ever knew the disdain I held for them.

Because I no longer have to "grin and bear it" I'm free to speak my mind, but you can rest assured that every manager you meet is thinking exactly as I'm posting and will never admit to it until their career is over.

 

[wacoflyr]

...but you can rest assured that every manager you meet is thinking exactly as I'm posting and will never admit to it until their career is over.

The managers I meet don't have to deal with a union. We don't have one. They have heard me speak my mind, and they have at least listened. I am certainly fallible, and sometimes I should have just shut my mouth, but no one has treated me with disrespect. I try always to be respectful of them as well.

However, they are not monolithic, certainly not in the manner that you describe. Our management team is diverse, both in their thinking and in their experience. We hover just on the edge of unionizing for a wide, wide variety of reasons ranging from pilots who think that the world owes them something to parts of our management team that have not followed through on what they told us. Mistakes have been made on both sides. In other words, we are a typical company trying to get along. But I can assure you that the contempt that you describe is not present here. Such seething anger has no part in any company, and would be impossible to hide, over the long term.

If it were present here, the pilots would lock step into union formation in self-defense. I would join them, and immediately seek employment elsewhere. I am glad, very glad that you are wrong.

Wacoflyr

 

[gutshotdraw]

I agree on the contract... 10 years is way too long.

On the other, you only think you know what I'm about. I've seen what unions do and that's the only reason I post. Most pilots haven't had the pleasure of watching a company get shredded by unions like I have. Most are too young to remember what a real work action is like, it's only something they read about in the history books. A union strike to them sounds so powerful, right up until they lose their job. Then reality sets in.

I'm not a union buster. I just like telling the ugly half that the unions collecting your dues will never tell you about because they also are scared of the truth.

My request to Fisch goes for you, too, toolbag. I may not agree with everything coming out of NJASAP HQ but they're a damn sight better than most unions, especially ALPA and I know that from first-hand experience.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Sorry Brother. You've asked me that before. I dropped the ball. My sincere apologies.

No worries amigo.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Hansell is completely unqualified to be the CEO of a luxury private jet company. according to his father Ed Hansell, who practices business law." Awww.... Isn't that nice. Nyemaster Goode lawyers defended the first sexual harassment jury trial in Iowa's federal courts and the first AIDS discrimination jury trial in Iowa. Even so, a hallmark of our practice is the commitment to help clients avoid litigation through counseling and prevention efforts. The type of matters our lawyers routinely handle include employment litigation, collective bargaining, contract administration, labor arbitration, trade secret and non-competition litigation, union avoidance, organizational campaigns, NLRB proceedings, OSHA compliance and enforcement, affirmative action plan design and development, employment counseling

Great, just the type of guy they would pick to get us to take it up the A$$

 

[Semore Butts]

Hahahahaha......G4, you really make me laugh dude!

G4 Said: My problem is that I don't agree with what the union is doing, so I don't want us to all pull together. I want the same things y'all want, I just disagree how and when to get it. In this economy, with the imminent collapse of the Euro, we ought to give in on scope, let them know we intend to discuss all the issues near and dear to your hearts at the next negotiations, and hope the company stays in business. When Greece and Italy and Spain and Portugal default on their bonds, and the Euro collapses, our banks will contract, our bond yields will go up, sending the debt even higher,we will begin printing money, inflation will commence, and we all will be lucky to have jobs at all. A worldwide recession, maybe depression, is no laughing matter.

Semore: Trust me G4, us giving in on scope isn't gonna prevent the Euro from collapsing.
Us getting back to running the country according to the constitution is what's gonna make this country great again.
Adapting our ways to the global community is what got us in this mess. (I know it's way more complicated then that, but you are intelligent enough to grasp what I'm getting at)

P.S. Read the book!!!!!

 

[rajflyboy]

G4: My problem is that I don't agree with what the union is doing, so I don't want us to all pull together. I want the same things y'all want, I just disagree how and when to get it. In this economy, with the imminent collapse of the Euro, we ought to give in on scope, let them know we intend to discuss all the issues near and dear to your hearts at the next negotiations, and hope the company stays in business. When Greece and Italy and Spain and Portugal default on their bonds, and the Euro collapses, our banks will contract, our bond yields will go up, sending the debt even higher,we will begin printing money, inflation will commence, and we all will be lucky to have jobs at all. A worldwide recession, maybe depression, is no laughing matter.

Trust me G4, us giving in on scope isn't gonna prevent the Euro from collapsing.
Us getting back to running the country according to the constitution is what's gonna make this country great again.
Adapting our ways to the global community is what got us in this mess. (I know it's way more complicated then that, but you are intelligent enough to grasp what I'm getting at)

P.S. Read the book!!!!!

We ought to give in on SCOPE ??

hahahahhahahahah Double Puke

and allow more jobs to go to cinci ??

are you a dumb ass?