NetJets To Picket

[G4dude]

First G4, let me apologise for my post on the other thread where I said you were blaming the union.

It was probably one of the few posts you didn't, or sided blindly with management

But, here you are again, blaming a union.

My only consolence if all the GLC guys feel like you do is; that well over 100 of them will be on the streets before they get to me.

On the other hand, maybe if we all pulled together it would get better and we could move in a positive direction?

Whatuya think?

Also, don't you think it is a little reckless to sympathize with the union buster (You said that in the other thread), without having read "Confessions of a Union Buster"?

My problem is that I don't agree with what the union is doing, so I don't want us to all pull together. I want the same things y'all want, I just disagree how and when to get it. In this economy, with the imminent collapse of the Euro, we ought to give in on scope, let them know we intend to discuss all the issues near and dear to your hearts at the next negotiations, and hope the company stays in business. When Greece and Italy and Spain and Portugal default on their bonds, and the Euro collapses, our banks will contract, our bond yields will go up, sending the debt even higher,we will begin printing money, inflation will commence, and we all will be lucky to have jobs at all. A worldwide recession, maybe depression, is no laughing matter.

 

[G4dude]

Well, seeing how my step-father is a long time (30+years) member of the Elevator mechanics Union..... I still think you are clueless.

Good for him, but how is he relevant?

 

[B19 Flyer]

You do understand your are maybe one of the .01% of pilots who may actually think Lorenzo wasn't a problem...... It would be one thing if your opinion just differed, but you're on a whole new level of out there. I hate to say it but ya gotta grow a back bone man....... I'm not against differing opinions but really???

Lorenzo is considered, among other things, the worst thing ever to happen to an airline pilot in the 80's and early 90's. He was doing his thing before I was even in high school. And even I know he was a complete jacka.ss.....

Really? How many jobs did he save?

From Wikipedia:

"In December 1986, Texas Air also finalized a deal to acquire Peoplexpress Airlines, a low-cost airline that had been formed by eight executives who had left Texas Air in 1980. The deal included the assets of the bankrupt Frontier Airlines, which Peoplexpress had purchased in 1985. In February 1987, PeoplExpress and New York Air were merged into Continental.[80] The combination of the airline companies controlled by Lorenzo through Texas Air accounted for 20% of the airline industry in the United States, and some estimates described it as the largest airline in the Western world, and second only to Aeroflot worldwide."

How many pilots were saved because he broke the union at Continental and kept he airline afloat?


Had Lorenzo not stepped into the picture, all those airlines would have gone poof and all those pilots would have been completely without jobs. By the time he got into Eastern it was indeed a lost cause and he was their last chance.


Like him or not, he saved jobs. The unions at Eastern cost jobs. It wasn't all Frank. The only reason he didn't start up again was from pressure from the democratic anti-union nimrods in the 90's that were pro-union.

Everybody completely forgets about what he did at Continental that save jobs. I'll be those pilots didn't. He gave them something the unions at Eastern didn't. A paycheck.


You can say what you want about him, he had the nuts to call it like he did and save airline after airline from completely vanishing.

Educate yourself in the history of aviation before you go talking about things you are clueless about.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Perhaps you should actually READ my posts. I mainly blamed the MACHINISTS union. By the way, did you know the Pilots union actually met secretly with Borman, offering to help break the machinists? A former member of the pilot strike committee told me that.

Yeah and the president of the pilot union said the strike was over-go back to work and they kept striking. Then, they re-elected him. Eastern Strike was such a mess.

Hope it doesn't snow in Columbus. Should be a lot of Christmas shoppers around Easton that day. Planning to film as much of it as I can with my cell when the feet give out.

 

[fischman]

My problem is that I don't agree with what the union is doing, so I don't want us to all pull together. I want the same things y'all want, I just disagree how and when to get it. In this economy, with the imminent collapse of the Euro, we ought to give in on scope, let them know we intend to discuss all the issues near and dear to your hearts at the next negotiations, and hope the company stays in business. When Greece and Italy and Spain and Portugal default on their bonds, and the Euro collapses, our banks will contract, our bond yields will go up, sending the debt even higher,we will begin printing money, inflation will commence, and we all will be lucky to have jobs at all. A worldwide recession, maybe depression, is no laughing matter.

Remember what I said about passion? I hope so.

CONCESSIONS DO NOT SAVE JOBS!!!!

They never have and they never will. I have posted this before, history has proven me right repeatedly. When you give in to concessions, the only thing that happens is that the CEO can go to the board and say, "Hey! Look at all this money I saved! Yayyyyy me!!!" Then the board says, "You are the best. Here is a $500 million bonus." Then the CEO goes to the bean counter licking his chops about his new $500 million and says, "Hey where can we save more money?" The bean counter says, " We can lay off about 300-500 pilots." So the CEO does, then he goes to the board and says, "Hey! I found more money! Yayyy me!!!" Then the board says, "Cool! Good job. You rock. Here's more money." Insert evil laugh here...

So. The moral of the story is that the company will still be in business (Honestly, when was the last time you heard of a Berkshire Hathaway company closing it's doors? :erm, The pilots will be out of work, the CEO will have millions, and the company will be no better off financially. YOUR CONCESSION WILL GO RIGHT TO THE WALLET OF THE CEO. IT WILL NOT HELP THE COMPANY.

You are playing right into their hands, please don't take this personally, and are AFRAID. You claimed this is your first union, and I'm glad that you agree that as far as unions go NJASAP isn't a bad one. We are NOT the enemy. We are the ones looking out for YOUR career. Seriously, go read Confessions of a Union Buster by Martin Levitt. Learn about the scare tactics, dirty backhanded tricks, and outright LIES that he was so proud of. The man literally ruined not only careers, but lives and families. This is the type of people we are dealing with here, why we need a union, why we need to stand up to these bullies, and why we need to defend our CBA and jobs.

Time to wake up!!!

 

[fischman]

You can say what you want about him, he had the nuts to call it like he did and save airline after airline from completely vanishing.

That's funny. I can't remember the last time I've seen an Eastern tail flying around...:nuts:

Seems vanished to me!!!

Speaking of vanishing, I seem to remember you saying that you work for a big non-union international airline and the only reason you post in the fraction forum was because you had a friend at FLOPS that you were worried about.

This is a thread about a different company which isn't a non-union international airline. The only reason you can possibly have any interest here is because you are a paid union buster here to spread doubt to people like G4, gutshotdraw, and others who have never been in a union, who are not excited about being in a union, and who are ignorant enough to believe the lies that you spew.

G4, this "person" is the EXACT character that you will read about in the book. He is paid to make you be afraid of your union. He doesn't care about you, your family, your company, or your career. He cares about the check the gets from the company. If you notice, I have posed maybe 500 questions to him over the years. He hasn't answered one of them directly. Why? He thinks it puts him in a position of power. Why should he address the little minion worker who should be just thankful for his presence?

 

[B19 Flyer]

That's funny. I can't remember the last time I've seen an Eastern tail flying around...:nuts:

Seems vanished to me!!!

Speaking of vanishing, I seem to remember you saying that you work for a big non-union international airline and the only reason you post in the fraction forum was because you had a friend at FLOPS that you were worried about.

This is a thread about a different company which isn't a non-union international airline. The only reason you can possibly have any interest here is because you are a paid union buster here to spread doubt to people like G4, gutshotdraw, and others who have never been in a union, who are not excited about being in a union, and who are ignorant enough to believe the lies that you spew.

G4, this "person" is the EXACT character that you will read about in the book. He is paid to make you be afraid of your union. He doesn't care about you, your family, your company, or your career. He cares about the check the gets from the company. If you notice, I have posed maybe 500 questions to him over the years. He hasn't answered one of them directly. Why? He thinks it puts him in a position of power. Why should he address the little minion worker who should be just thankful for his presence?

Frank was able to save the earlier ones, but the unions at Eastern got the best of him and one got away. Those union decisions cost a lot of people their careers. Frank was also able to keep Eastern flying a lot longer than it should have given the economic climate. But no matter which you slice it, you can't mention the failure of Eastern without mentioning the success of Continental and Texas Air and the jobs that were saved there.

The only questions I've never answered have been personal in nature. For example, this little education piece is there for your pleasure, but you'd prefer to focus on me and ignore all the pilot jobs that Frank Lorenzo saved in the industry. Stay on point, let's talk about Frank.. you drift a lot, don't you?

If somebody didn't show the other side of the union issue, the 495 would have thought it was perfectly OK to be furloughed. That would have been a shame, wouldn't it?

You wouldn't be trying to stifle my right to free speech would you?

 

[BentOver]

G4, you are a lost cause... You wanna know what 30+ years in a machinist means? It means I don't take sh.it from management, nor does my step-father. They signed a contract, the company made money during said contract... Now they can figure out how to make money again with the same contract..... I don't pay for managements shortcomings.. Yes, they are shortcomings.. We have a 40 yr. old lawyer from Iowa leading the largest private aviation company in the world. What does this guy know about aviation?

He knows how to Union bust.. Well, attempt to Union Bust.. His tactics so far have been very bland and predictable. His biggest tool is supposed furloughs. But it's difficult to Union bust when the very people he could furlough basically say "go ahead"....

If Buffett wants the company smaller, so be it.. He can have his smaller company..... with the same CBA in force....

I don't even respond to B19's posts because it is obvious who he is, and not worthy of a response.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Remember what I said about passion? I hope so.

CONCESSIONS DO NOT SAVE JOBS!!!!

They never have and they never will. I have posted this before, history has proven me right repeatedly. When you give in to concessions, the only thing that happens is that the CEO can go to the board and say, "Hey! Look at all this money I saved! Yayyyyy me!!!" Then the board says, "You are the best. Here is a $500 million bonus." Then the CEO goes to the bean counter licking his chops about his new $500 million and says, "Hey where can we save more money?" The bean counter says, " We can lay off about 300-500 pilots." So the CEO does, then he goes to the board and says, "Hey! I found more money! Yayyy me!!!" Then the board says, "Cool! Good job. You rock. Here's more money." Insert evil laugh here...

So. The moral of the story is that the company will still be in business (Honestly, when was the last time you heard of a Berkshire Hathaway company closing it's doors? :erm, The pilots will be out of work, the CEO will have millions, and the company will be no better off financially. YOUR CONCESSION WILL GO RIGHT TO THE WALLET OF THE CEO. IT WILL NOT HELP THE COMPANY.

You are playing right into their hands, please don't take this personally, and are AFRAID. You claimed this is your first union, and I'm glad that you agree that as far as unions go NJASAP isn't a bad one. We are NOT the enemy. We are the ones looking out for YOUR career. Seriously, go read Confessions of a Union Buster by Martin Levitt. Learn about the scare tactics, dirty backhanded tricks, and outright LIES that he was so proud of. The man literally ruined not only careers, but lives and families. This is the type of people we are dealing with here, why we need a union, why we need to stand up to these bullies, and why we need to defend our CBA and jobs.

Time to wake up!!!

You probably are going to need to speak with all those pilots based in Dallas flying for American Airlines. Perhaps NJW's husband could educate you on that with his former AMR background.

They are about to prove to you that concessions save jobs.

 

[B19 Flyer]

G4, you are a lost cause... You wanna know what 30+ years in a machinist means? It means I don't take sh.it from management, nor does my step-father. They signed a contract, the company made money during said contract... Now they can figure out how to make money again with the same contract..... I don't pay for managements shortcomings.. Yes, they are shortcomings.. We have a 40 yr. old lawyer from Iowa leading the largest private aviation company in the world. What does this guy know about aviation?

He knows how to Union bust.. Well, attempt to Union Bust.. His tactics so far have been very bland and predictable. His biggest tool is supposed furloughs. But it's difficult to Union bust when the very people he could furlough basically say "go ahead"....

If Buffett wants the company smaller, so be it.. He can have his smaller company..... with the same CBA in force....

I don't even respond to B19's posts because it is obvious who he is, and not worthy of a response.

You don't respond to my posts because you can't counter the truth. Have another glass of koolaid. Believe in your union, there is no reason to think for yourself. Your union thinks for you.