NetJets Recalls

[G4dude]

Yeah. Before the furloughs, I think we may have been over 6 pilots per plane as they continued to hire ... but never took delivery of the planes the pilots were hired to fly.

So in a way, NJ already recalled pilots as they never furloughed to below 4 pilots per plane (never below 5) as I believe Flex and CA were at 3.8 to 3.9 per plane at one point.

Options Management was Prescient. They reduced the size of the Fleet and of the pilot force from near 1000 to around 400 BEFORE THE FINANCIAL CRISIS! Positioning themselves perfectly to weather the hard times.

NJ on the other hand had too many pilots, employees, airplanes (on the property and on order), a $200 million school house about to break ground... Talk about caught with your pants down.

Yeah, we at NetJets were expanding quite aggressively..and won't be doing THAT again for a while. My guess is 2014, after management has changed hands in the Senate and the White House, and the economy has absorbed the impact of the necessary government spending cuts which will follow the election in 2012. Its gonna be a BUMPY ride.

 

[G4dude]

G4 Dude, you sound like your wife....In a crappy mood again???? We should all be FATIGUING when necessary to help out our brothers & sisters. On the contrary, I am NOT PROUD to have to fatigue because I like to get the job done but I refuse to do it when I'm exhausted. I hope that the men and women that are furloughed get some hope that we are all pushing for them to be recalled and I remain on the 7&7 in hopes that they will get back here soon. God knows I would want the same support from my senior pilots if I become furloughed(140 from the bottom). Wouldn't you want that same support G4 Dude????

Fair response, and a good question. I want NetJets to be profitable and stay profitable, so we will continue to have a job in these perilous times, which are going to get worse when the Euro collapses and the US government massively cuts spending in the near future, which is necessary but painful. As for this "exhaustion" thing, I just don't get it. I worked as a brickmason's laborer, and that was sometimes exhausting, but flying? No offense, but I don't understand.

 

[G4dude]

Whoopy-ding. I do that EVERY tour, as a west coast based pilot after airlining to the east coast over 2, sometimes 3 legs. That's waking up at midnight-ish my time, to do my 12-13 hrs of duty. Let's throw a nice shift to 2 pm in there and back to mornings too. Do this EVERY TIME you go to work and you'll see why we "pu$$ies" fatigue.
I find it easier to work hard physically after no sleep than to fly. Because I am moving. My body is doing something. I can do things that stimulate, not dull, my senses. I bet you can close your cockpit door, do a puzzle or something. Us? Nope. Sit there and look out the window, hour after hour fighting the sandman off after multiple circadian shifts EVERY TIME we go to work.
You are a baptist preacher at the pulpit in a Jewish church here. You don't know what you are talking about, and your opinions and insults mean nothing.

My insults? Sorry, I didn't know I had insulted anybody. I did say I would fire that one guy, though.

 

[BentOver]

So....what's the latest this week...I think McDonalds was being served tonight...was the Union atleast offered a big Mac w/cheese?

 

[jetlag7]

Thread Bump!

Just back from recurrent last week....

"Latest and Greatest" says recalls around 2014. (yeah I know.... last year they said 2013)

Just relaying what I was told - don't shoot the messenger!

I was also told to not disclose info on fleet plans, marketing, or the business model so don't ask me about that. (nothing was mentioned about recalls so I figured it was fair game)

 

[OPECJet]

Won't shoot the messenger. I heard pretty much the same thing from a friend a who went through a few months ago. He told me the planned pilot numbers, and they were still low from what is on the property now, but the company is going to get there without furloughs. No one made mention of how they planned to do that.

2014 is still a long way out. Hopefully that number changes for the better. Would be nice to get everyone back and go into hire mode, as there are some quality guys on the street who would do well at NJA. Not to mention I need the money!:laugh:

 

[BentOver]

I've got a feeling the senior furloughees are close to halfway through the furlough.....

BTW if they really didn't want the fleet plan numbers to get out they wouldn't have told recurrent classes.:beer:

 

[doylehargraves]

BTW if they really didn't want the fleet plan numbers to get out they wouldn't have told recurrent classes.:beer:

I hear you on that but, what difference does it make? You only have 2 competitors now, if you count Flight Options.

 

[BentOver]

I hear you on that but, what difference does it make? You only have 2 competitors now, if you count Flight Options.

Not sure exactly what you mean about the competition?

I don't think it makes any difference in the end. I'm sure all the competition can figure out what NJA is/will be up to. They knowm NJA's fleet, the age of the fleet and orders on the books.

To be honest I think they are resigned to the fact that NJA is the largest, will always be the largest and seeing how the industry is in the dumps still, know that there may be another competitor calling it quits at some point.. That's all my opinion.

 

[gret]

Not sure exactly what you mean about the competition?

I don't think it makes any difference in the end. I'm sure all the competition can figure out what NJA is/will be up to. They knowm NJA's fleet, the age of the fleet and orders on the books.

To be honest I think they are resigned to the fact that NJA is the largest, will always be the largest and seeing how the industry is in the dumps still, know that there may be another competitor calling it quits at some point.. That's all my opinion.

You know, reading your post I starting thinking about the last twenty years in business aviation.

In 1992/1993 the industry was really in the tank, charter was in its infancy for most people, nobody had heard of fractional ownership, and Gulfstream had to be saved from bankruptcy by Ted Forstmann. We got on a roll in the 1997-2000 years with the dot com craze...charter was going nuts, fractional were reeling them in, and the manufacturers had wait lists. That busted out in 2000 and things really starting to go down hill and 9/11 made it worst. A rebound occurred in the 2004-2007 time frame due to the housing market which spurred on Wall Street and we had a repeat of the late 1990's.

Economic bubbles have driven demand for private aviation and if you count the good years versus the bad or mediocre, we have had approximately 6 good years and 14 so so years.

The point of the rambling is that this is really a lousy business to be in. Very few people can afford our services and demand usually occurs when we are riding a phantom horse called a bubble. We are facing a mountain of foreclosures that are coming in the next two years (more than the last three years combined), unemployment is still 8.2% and that figure doesn't take into account the fact that many people that are working, are making less than they did 3-4 years ago. A pound of butter is closing in on $5 (up almost 50% in 4 years), lunch at Wendy's is $7, and a gin and tonic is $10 in most places (25% of the customers aren't making their mortgage payments)...we just don't have a lot of things going our way. .

While we will get thru this because we are resilient, 2014 would have to be viewed as a reach for any real recovery in private aviation...the overall economy will be better and aviation will have to wait awhile longer.