NetJets Recalls

[G4dude]

Yes. I am serious. Being a little tired is exactly like being intoxicated. A little tired IS UNSAFE. Have you been living under a rock?!? Are YOU being serious?

Trust me, the majority of the disappointment is on THIS side of the computer.

A little tired is NOT unsafe, nor is it even remotely like being intoxicated. This is nuts. If you were a pilot for me I would fire you.

 

[realityman]

I understand what the goal of this topic is. But you guys are embarrassing. I take October off to work a harvest, either running a tractor or driving truck. During this time I will work up to twenty hours a day with little sleep and love it. It's only for 4-6 weeks but nobody gets killed. If ya can't get up and watch the plane fly you should fatigue forever.

What the heck does this have to do with anything being discussed here?

Harvests, tractors, and airplanes? Oh yeah, I can see the similarity. NOT!

"Oh, I'm sleepy while driving my tractor. Look! I'm off course and harvesting the wheat instead of the corn! AHHHHH!!!!"

So, what? You have your farming certificate pulled? You'll face legal action? You'll be killed?

There are many things in life I can do while fatigued, and even enjoy doing them. That doesn't mean they're good comparisons to operating aircraft while fatigued.

By the way, there have been many accidents in the farming industry where folks have lost limbs, or their lives, around the farm equipment. But maybe not so many studies done on the relationship between operating farm machinery fatigued and corresponding accidents. Same as there weren't a lot of correlations made between aircraft accidents and fatigue until people started actually looking into it. And even if it doesn't involve damage to humans, how much farm equipment has been damaged because a sleepy farmer wasn't paying as close attention as he should have been to the operation of his equipment? Correct me if I'm wrong, but this stuff isn't tracked in the farming industry the way it is in the aviation industry.

For all of the reasons mentioned above, your sarcastic comparison holds no water.

On a slightly different note, I agree with Glasspilot that perhaps the trouble with this thread is no one has adequately defined "a little tired". I've listened to people on our union boards complain about how hard the company is running them, and that they are completely exhausted when reaching the hotel. Well, if they're that tired when reaching the hotel, then I'll bet everything I own that they were at least "a little tired" when flying that last leg. And some of those folks are the same ones here on this thread saying they won't fly "a little tired".

I don't think flying "a little tired" is a problem in itself. I think finishing a leg "a little tired", and then facing another, perhaps longer, flight where you would then finish "a lot tired" is the real problem. Starting a flight "a little tired" without thinking about what you'll feel like at the end of that flight is where the real danger lies. IMHO.

 

[G4dude]

oh no not another one
with an attitude like that no wonder we have accidents.

Yeah, watching all those tubes and gages is really exhausting and fatiguing. Seriously, I had no idea there were pilots out there who fatigue at the drop of a hat, and it is embarrassing. I thought at my age I had heard it all, or at least most of it.

 

[vtwo]

omg?? you do realize you are arguing on the internet right?
Now I say again , when are the recalls happening?

 

[ozpilot]

omg?? you do realize you are arguing on the internet right?
Now I say again , when are the recalls happening?

vtwo - no indication of when recalls will start. Too much uncertainty right now. I'm going to company recurrent next month and will certainly ask the question but I don't expect a direct answer.

It is an interesting discussion on "a little tired" and fatigued.

Every pilot at some point flys a little tired. If you have ever yawned in the cockpit, your were a little tired. If the alarm clock in your hotel room has woken you up then your already a little tired.

Being a little tired, in my opinion, is not a threat to safety. Being fatigued definitely is. So the real question is at what point do you go from being a little tired to being fatigued? Thats what we should be discussing.

Here are some signs that you are fatigued.

The occasion yawn turns into numerous yawns
"head bob"
Missed radio calls
Mistakes made in control input, such as dialling in frequencies or programming the FMS
Your short term memory deteriorates "What frequency did he say?"

The real challenge with fatigue is that if you experience any of the above symptoms in the cockpit it is already too late. You should not have taken off. The challenge is to look at the leg you plan to fly and be able to predict if you can complete it safely without becomming fatigued.

 

[brokeflyer]

Yeah, watching all those tubes and gages is really exhausting and fatiguing. Seriously, I had no idea there were pilots out there who fatigue at the drop of a hat, and it is embarrassing. I thought at my age I had heard it all, or at least most of it.

You dont understand much about this business. If you were in my right seat id make you go do something that involves touching ******************** with your bare hands.

When you get a clue and stop being dumb then we'll talk.

your apology will accepted.

 

[fischman]

A little tired is NOT unsafe, nor is it even remotely like being intoxicated. This is nuts. If you were a pilot for me I would fire you.

That's alright. If you worked for me, I'd fire you for your active disregard for safety.

You wouldn't need to fire me, I would never work for an operation with your attitude anyway. My resignation would be yours. References wouldn't be required. I don't want to be associated with pilots like you.

 

[ProFracPilot]

The real challenge with fatigue is that if you experience any of the above symptoms in the cockpit it is already too late. You should not have taken off.

:beer:

 

[transpac]

Well, guess I can't fly before 10 AM anymore. I'm always tired until I have a leisurely shower and a few cups of coffee. Ditto flying after lunch and dinner. I always get a little sleepy after a full meal. And, flying after dark is out since dark and sleep are associated in my mind. I'll just have to call in fatigued except between 10 AM and noon. If there's a lot of bags to load I might not be able to fly at all.

 

[brokeflyer]

Well, guess I can't fly before 10 AM anymore. I'm always tired until I have a leisurely shower and a few cups of coffee. Ditto flying after lunch and dinner. I always get a little sleepy after a full meal. And, flying after dark is out since dark and sleep are associated in my mind. I'll just have to call in fatigued except between 10 AM and noon. If there's a lot of bags to load I might not be able to fly at all.

finally, someone understands.