Netjets Question...

[inthepool]

Please pardon my ignorance and bear with me on this one...

There's been a lot of talk about QOL and pay on this board, but I would like to know a little bit more about the actual job...

I realize that an airplane is an airplane, etc etc, but once on the ground the differences between 121 and the fractionals could be huge. (I know, I know, I'm a babied airline puke...) Does Netjets have a dispatch department or do you plan and file your own flight plans? Is all the servicing done by FBOs, or are you behind the scenes dumping lavs, loading bags, etc? Is there a flight attendant? And if there isn't, does the FO take care of the pax in flight? Finally, do the pax fit the rich people stereotype and treat you like dirt?

Again, pardon my ignorance, and thanx for your insight.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Does Netjets have a dispatch department or do you plan and file your own flight plans?

We have a licensed dispatchers on staff who handle that. About the only time we end up filing our own flight plans is a computer glitch at Bridgeway.

Is all the servicing done by FBOs, or are you behind the scenes dumping lavs, loading bags, etc?

Servicing is typically done by FBO's under supervision from the crews. Often we'll load the bags, too, but typically the line guys are more than happy to help ($$$). And those tips are reimbursed.

Is there a flight attendant? And if there isn't, does the FO take care of the pax in flight?

The only planes with full-time FA's are the BBJ and the Falcon on the NJA side. Flight attendants can be requested by the owners onbaord any aircraft but I've never seen one in the Ultra/Encore fleet. As for taking care of the pax, it's crew thing. Often, the pax are just happy to sit in back and enjoy the ride.

Finally, do the pax fit the rich people stereotype and treat you like dirt?

There are jackasses at all income levels, to be blunt. For the most part, the owners and cardholders I've flown with are really good people. I've seen very, very few snooty types, as I think you are alluding to. Rather, I mostly see polite, good-natured people who are blessed with a lot of income. You could probably hear a lot of stories from NetJets crews about how nice a lot of the folks in back are, from sports figures to movie stars, etc.

 

[Jafo73]

does the FO take care of the pax in flight? Finally, do the pax fit the rich people stereotype and treat you like dirt?

This was kind of a concern for me before I started working here. Most (so far, all) of the time you say hello to the pax when they arrive, let them get in the plane, before or after the safety brief ask if they want anything (usually the most you'll do is hand back a bottle of water or a coke). The pax usually take care of themselves during the flight, and when they come up to the refreshment area (behind the pilots) they ask if they can get us anything! And as guitar said, the majority are nice down to earth people who treat you like a human being.

 

[skiandsurf]

Airlines vs fractionals...

Airlines... you are locked in a cockpit, behind a bullet proof door. No interaction with anyone while inflight. While on the ground, you are free to wait in line at McDonalds or Taco Bell, or go check the loads for your commute home.


Fractionals... you fly around with no cockpit door. Free to get up at anytime to get crewfood or snacks, or run to the lav. It is true that our ground time is busy...clean up, wipe down, vacuum, make sure you have enough snacks that you want...then relax.

If you have down time (3 hr break)...

Airlines...try to find a clean and quiet place in the terminal or crewroom (if at a domicile).

Fractionals...go to the FBOs pilot lounge and enjoy the big screen TVs, computer, and relax. If you want to go for a quick drive, ask for a crew car.

I know that most fractional guys have no desire to fly for the airlines, and most airline guys have no desire to fly fractionals. But if you like variety, and the occasional challenge, fractionals is where its at.

(FWIW....most of our owners are nice and polite. They are seasoned travelers, so they know what they can and cannot do and bring).

 

[CRJFlyer]

I've only had 1 trip this month where the owners were a little snobby..They weren't mean or anything, the wife was a little on the snooty side. As expected the husband just sat back and enjoyed the ride..My only gripe about them is they never sayed anything getting off the plane(not a thanks or merry x-mas). But if thats the worst than I don't have all that much to complain about.

Earlier this month a lady heading to a ski resort town asked us if we wanted anything, cleaned up after herself and her really well behaved kids. And she actually wouldn't let me take the wrappers etc. from her while she was cleaning up. She insisted on handling the trash herself. Then she took the time to get directions for us so we could get a good dinner at a place she knew of in town.

Important part to remember when flying these pax. Some actually do have respect for our profession and listen to what we have to say. They don't usually treat us as their "employees". Or servants. And if they get really out of line you can stop the flight/divert if need be. (as a last resort).

I had the same doubts leaving the 121 world for 91 and also from moving from my small 91 job to NJA. But it's definitely way better than any regional job can be. (although I've never been to a major, I don't really envy those guys as I digest the grilled salmon lunch I ate while watching the flat screen at the FBO) And then get my revenue flight home hoping to be in after midnight so I can collect anoth 1K on my next paycheck! And then seehow many airline and hotel miles I have so I can go on my next free vacation.:laugh:

 

[fischman]

I actually had a passenger offer his house to me and my crew while he and his family went skiing. He was telling us about his 62 in TV and fridge full of beer. Unfortunatly, we had to decline but the offer was appreciated!

 

[RCA]

Meeting the person who invented the Mustang, Presidential canidates, TV icons, and the like also make the job interesting.

 

[captain dad]

I thought when I started flying 17 years ago that I would be an airline guy for the rest of my life. Now you couldn't pay me enough to go back. This kind of flying is not for everyone. If you need to know exactly what you are doing and when you are going to do it, then this is not for you. This job is unpredictable and requires a person that can adapt and switch gears easily.

There are a lot of hidden benefits that, for me, make this my last stop. I truly love it here. Netjets saved me from 20 plus years of airline hell.

Thanks Uncle Warren.

 

[RCA]

Does NJA have any left seat flying privaleges for the gear swinger.

 

[skiandsurf]

Does NJA have any left seat flying privaleges for the gear swinger.

Not sure what you are trying to ask. NJs doesnt hire "gear swingers". All of our pilots have an ATP and a minimum of 2500 hrs.

As far as flying goes, SICs can fly from either the left or right seat. Left seat on empty legs or right seat with pax. I usually only fly the empty legs from the left seat. This is my choice. I have been flying from the left seat for the past 15 years, and just feel more comfortable there.

 

[CA1900]

I, on the other hand, usually just stay in the right seat for the tour. I build my nest, plug in my headset, and don't really want to move everything every other leg. I have thousands of left-seat hours too, and it doesn't really matter to me either way. But it's still nice to have the option.

 

[RCA]

I'm with you guys. Really does'nt make a difference, however, it is nice to have the option.
One last ? If your an SIC in the falcon you can fly from the left seat on empty legs?
I guess this makes my decesion to apply and leave CS a little more complicated.

 

[lookin4better]

no flame intended here.....but why would it matter to fly from the left seat on empty legs?

There is only one designated PIC for the flight at NJ ( part 1 definition that counts for most airlines..UPS Fedex, SWA....if that is your goal---) so it couldnt be logged as that type of PIC time.

 

[RCA]

I wouldn't ask to wear the 4 stripes while in the left seat, I just enjoy the change of pace.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

ALL pilots at NJA are type-rated and wear four stripes.

cliff
CDI

 

[CA1900]

Hi!

ALL pilots at NJA are type-rated and wear four stripes.

I better call the uniform company -- they've been mistakenly sending 3-stripe stuff to us for years now!


You're correct about the type rating, though.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Which begs the question. If they DID log it as PIC and for some reason that eludes me at the moment take that logged time to SWA or FedEx and tell them that it's PIC turbine... how would FedEx or SWA ever know that they were being less-than-100%-honest?

 

[CRJFlyer]

They must have issued me 3 stripes on accident then!!!!

we are typed as PIC's but as far as the company/union go we are paid SIC rates and have SIC authority until our seniority can hold PIC...Now if I found a part-time gig in a X I can fly as a PIC...

As far as bringing in PIC time to FedEx or SWA, I'd be willing to bet they have an idea that if we've been at NJA for 2 years and have 1000+ PIC hours in a X...they'd get a funny feeling something isn't right. They have to know the size f NJA and that upgrades are not 1 or 2 years... NJA also keeps duty/flght records for many years and keeps track of PIC/SIC hours, landings IMC etc...Every flight you do as a SIC, from either the left or right seat, will be logged as SIC in the companies eyes. Also in the eyes of those carriers that require you to "sign for the a/c.." ie:..SWA

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Thanx 4 the correction.

I thought that it was a sort of industry standard: If you get a type, you wear 4, and if you get a FO training you wear 3 until you upgrade.

Personally, I like to fly. If it's a good company, with a decent compensation package, I don't care what seat I'm in, how many stripes I have, or if I fly Capt or FO. I'd rather fly FO somewhere great, than be a Capt at a not so great place.

NJA sounds like a very good place to be.

cliff
CID

 

[CRJFlyer]

I agree with that....A 4 striper flying for a shi^^y 135..(kinda like the one I just left) gets little respect if you will, versus even a 3 striper at a place like NJA. Same goes for a regional Captain in my eyes... I'd much rather be an FO at NJA ,than making less $$ as a Captain at a regional...Not that they don't get my respect, but you get my drift.. Personally it's all about the mighty $$$... But I do realize we as FO's got a pretty descent x-mas gift from NJA.. (not that we didn't deserve it though!) we all deserve more than we're making, especially at the regional level.

just my .02

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I'd much rather be an FO at NJA ,than making less $$ as a Captain at a regional...Not that they don't get my respect, but you get my drift..

Well it's a good thing they have your respect. They sure as heck don't have much of mine.

 

[CRJFlyer]

I was just making an attempt to be diplomatic:laugh:

now I'm pretty young, but the spikey haired asian FO with the backpack a few weeks ago scared me...

I don't think I looked that young even freshman year of college..I felt for his Captain who looked like he ws making every attempt not to be associated with him. But in the end he was guilty by association.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Someone on here was a revenue passenger on a flight that had an F/O with a mohawk...

... but I'll let him tell the story.

 

[CA1900]

Someone on here was a revenue passenger on a flight that had an F/O with a mohawk...

... but I'll let him tell the story.

HA! Thanks...

Wasn't an actual mohawk, mind you, but rather a regular haircut smashed into the shape of a mohawk with copious amounts of Regionäle brand hair gel.


Didn't exactly leave a good impression of Trans States in my mind!

 

[lookin4better]

Funny!!

I think its called a Faux-hawk.....and its not very professional looking ( unless you cut hair at Super Cuts ) and they wonder why they cant get paid like professionals.

 

[CA1900]

I think its called a Faux-hawk.....

YES! I knew there was a name for it... too funny....

He'd have fit in great as a waiter at Friday's. (And actually, working for Hulas, he may have had to do that on his days off!)

 

[lookin4better]

yup....oh thats funny about the Fridays server......maybe it was his Pro Pilot " Flare!"
definitly fits in better for that job , not too much as a 'professional' pilot...

oh well....glad im out of that regional bunch. ( however there are a good number of normal guys/gals at regionals that try hard to remain professional in both appearance and attitude ----cant label them all as Faux-hawkers )

 

[Dr Pepper]

I am one of those SICs that trades off flying and non-flying duties. First flight is the Captains leg, next is mine, then capt's, then mine, and on and on. If it is an empty leg at the start or end of the day, and mine to fly, I'll do it from the left seat. I like to be comfortable in either seat. All the PICs have asked me, before our very first flight how I want to do it - left only, right only, or flip-flop, or whatever.

Back to the original question. In my limited experience, PIC does the exterior walk around. SIC is inside, cleaning tables, windows, floors, hand prints from the cabinets. SIC checks stock to see what is needed and stocks accordingly. If at a locker, either SIC or PIC if inside, gets stock and brings to locker. SIC makes sure ice, coffee, hot water, lav water, papers, and catering are good and on the plane. Once the back of the plane looks good, then you worry about clearance, ATIC, smashing buttons and checklists. Customers will and do show early. It has happened several times this week - 45 mins early. One person greets pax outside the plane and then takes care of bags, if there are any. The other greets the pax inside, checks manifest and IDs (could be done already), briefs on safety, catering, and flight time and conditions.
Then you fly. That is your job when the plane is moving. You do not have to tend to the pax. Most will not bother you. Some will talk to you if you are not busy, usually after we notice them looking at the cockpit and we speak to them. The majority know their way around the drawers.
One customer brought us some of his birthday cake, already sliced, so we would not refuse. It is good.
Another group of customers poured crushed pringles in the cubby hole where the phone is. Not cool.
After landing, one person goes out and gets the bags, the other says goodbye and then picks up the trash, wipes down the trays and windows, vacuums floor, orders lav, papers, and catering. PIC orders fuel, gets flight release, calls CANPASS if going to Canada (or puts out some other fire). Clean back, then checklists up front, repeat next flight.
The cleaning is easy if everyone helps out and you stay up on it.
Last flight is over and plane is clean, PIC does the books, SIC gathers the stuff off the plane, both put plane to bed (pitot and engine covers, batteries pulled, choked, brakes released, locked), figure out trans, go to hotel, call travel if reservations are messed up, order food for next day, sleep.
Sometimes you will do this routine only once a day, sometimes 6 times a day.

 

[skiandsurf]

SIC is inside, cleaning tables, windows, floors, hand prints from the cabinets.

Last trip (over xmas), we had a family with a couple of kids. Upon arrival, it was snowing outside, and the grandfather and husband went to get the car. The young mom was onboard with her boys. The plane was a mess. I was talking to the mom and the kids, and I told the boys that we were going to play a game. The objective of the game, was to see which kid could put the most trash in the trashcan. They went crazy cleaning up the plane. The mom wanted me to come to their house to play the same game.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Hi!

ALL pilots at NJA are type-rated and wear four stripes.

cliff
CDI

Only PIC's wear four stripes at NJA, though all are type-rated.

Where did you get the idea that all NJA pilots wear four stripes?