Netjets New Payscale

[Hogprint]

I think you answered your own question Vmax. The company tried to raise the newhire rate, no strings attached, because it was the right thing to do and they want committed, long term employees here.

The right thing to do is negotiate in good faith on a new CBA that raises ALL employees rates...no strings attached.

You will then return to long term committed employees.

 

[dsptchrnja]

The only thing misleading on this forum is you familyguy. A 5th year captain is only going to see about a 8.2% raise. Even at 40% an new FO will only be at $37,800 with no upgrade in sight. I didnt see anything in the proposal that gave a 40% raise. A 10 year Captain will never make what a new JB captain makes. It is not a bunch of Union militants that are making misleading and disparaging attacks. That is coming from you. We are just telling our side of the story to counter the lies being spread here. You have no credibility and you never will.

In all fairness FC employees don't see all the details of the negotiated contract. Just what the company has posted. And the company is held accountable by you, the pilots for that information that we see. If there were false statements they would readily show up in places like this forum. All this to say the 23-40% figure came from one of your fellow pilots in this post. If it is incorrect you have the right to refute it. No one really did when he posted it:

Yes, it was two different offers. The first had six figures in it but we lost all of the bennies, insurance 401k etc...afraid not...

Second was the one they sent out to all. It was somewhat lower with the bennies back in, looked like a step in the right direction to me, except for no bidding of schedules AT ALL. I guess you just start your 6 on 6 off or 6 on 4 off and work it for the rest of your Netjet career. Doesn't work for me. Pay wise looked like a 23% increase for 6n6 and around 40% if I want no life on the 6n4.
Mute point though, this has turned into a battle of egos for both sides and neither will agree to anything just to spite the other...JMHO.

NJA Non-bargaining employees probably should stay away from initiating or responding to debates about what is meant to be between the company and union since we generally don't have all the information to make informed statements. But if crews are going to post information such as the quote above in a public aviation forum, be prepared because people are going to use it.

 

[FAcFriend]

we generally don't have all the information to make informed statements. -dispatcher


OMG- Are we supposed to be making informed statements here??
No wonder noone likes my posts!!

 

[dsptchrnja]

we generally don't have all the information to make informed statements. -dispatcher


OMG- Are we supposed to be making informed statements here??
No wonder noone likes my posts!!

LOL

 

[dukeofdub]

"How many times do we have to tell you people that we refused to look at the books that they offered. THE COMPANY REFUSED TO SHOW US THE BOOKS THAT WE REQUESTED TO LOOK AT. Why don't you ask the company what they have to hide by not showing US the books we want? I will tell you......A SH!T LOAD OF HIDDEN MONEY THAT THEY DON'T WANT US TO KNOW ABOUT. That is why we will strike.

So instead of being pissed at us, why don't you direct some of that anomosity towards the company, for they are the reason we will strike. Ergo, their fault.

MORONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I swear!!!!!!!!!!! It is not that difficult!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, I vented, now.......

There is nothing you can do to change OUR minds. We are fighting for OUR pay, OUR families, OUR lives, because this is what right in OUR hearts. Not YOURS. Someday you will figure this out. What we are doing is not personal towards you. But we have taken this personal from the company, ie RTS, because we can see past the company BS and the propoganda they put forth. Unfortunatley you either choose not to or do not have the abililty to.

It amazes me that the bickering between us is even an issue. We know what solidarity is and would support you without question if you decided to be paid an AVERAGE wage for what you do.

We are not asking to be the highest paid, just in the AVERAGE range for what we fly and what we do. I could understand your point if we demanded to be paid THE premium wage for which everyone else wanted to attain.

This will be over someday, hopefuly soon. In the end though, we will still be working together as co-workers, we will still have to talk to each other and deal with each other. We are professionals as are you. We need to remember this because when it is said and done we are still on the same team.

Respectfully, ce750drvr"

It is good to see the Union coming back to the Bargaining table. The Company has offered to show you all the NetJets Inc. books and has tried to communicate their position quite clearly. So lets all hope that we are getting closer and that there will be an agreement in the near future. Nobody likes all the bickering and we are still on the same team. If you believe that everything from the Company is propoganda then you have to understand that everything the Union says is propganda. It is and you know it. You just don't want to hear anything except what you think is right.

It will be over someday and the tone will become more civil. It does no good to call each other names, and it does no good for pilots to go on a campaign of damaging the company. That will lose the respect of everybody, and you know it.

Everybody wants fair wages, but you have to decide what is fair, what is right and where you want to work. Do you expect anybody to believe your statement about the books you asked for? I think not. I would have expected more from a professional.

 

[VmaxFlyR]

My understanding is that the current proposal has raises ranging from 23% to 40%, depending on seniority and position, with the larger number going to the new hires. If 23% is the minimum raise, then I think that meets the definition of 'sizable'.

Do your figures account for the 7-12% raise pilots get every year? Everyone knows no pilot is making the same amount he or she was making in 1998 just because a new contract hasn't gone through.

You're missing the point...unless 5 year, or what ever year pay you want to talk about , is Indexed, in REAL Dollars, the pay, and standard of living for that pilot receiving that pay will decline...get it?


http://www.aier.org/cgi-aier/colcalculator.cgi


Again:
Then that guy who will be a 5 year Captain 3 years from now will be looking at probably a -3% (decrease) to a +14% (increase) in Real Wages in 2008...

Is that same guy going to have to work more days for that raise? How about working any more hours in a day?

What about the status of his benefit package?


The devil is often in the details--could be a reason the netjets pilots aren't too excited about that latest proposal!

 

[FAcFriend]

You're missing the point...unless 5 year, or what ever year pay you want to talk about , is Indexed, in REAL Dollars, the pay, and standard of living for that pilot receiving that pay will decline...get it?

I think we all get the point. BUT- you are missing the point as well-
unfortunately you have not had a pay raise other than the raise for seniority for years-

So now you are living on pitiful pay-

30% will raise your standard of living. today. real money - real dollars.

 

[VmaxFlyR]

You're missing the point...unless 5 year, or what ever year pay you want to talk about , is Indexed, in REAL Dollars, the pay, and standard of living for that pilot receiving that pay will decline...get it?

I think we all get the point. BUT- you are missing the point as well-
unfortunately you have not had a pay raise other than the raise for seniority for years-

So now you are living on pitiful pay-

30% will raise your standard of living. today. real money - real dollars.

Your statement is true, but you ignore 2 facts:

1) Contracts and wages are comparisions that are also historical--the comparison here is to a (old) 1998 pay scale. If the goal is to simply keep pace with the standard of living from 1998, then the proposal would be sufficient. I think that what the pilots want is an increase in their standard of living from where they were in years past--hence the NBAA comparisions.

2) Again, what ever you pay a 5 year captain today, call him Capt. A, if in 3 years you pay that same amount to a guy who is TODAY 3 years junior to today's 5 year guy (currently 2 years seniority, following me?), call him Capt. B,
poor Capt. B's standard of living will be less than what Capt. A's was when he was a 5 year captain, today. $100k won't buy the same livestyle in 2008 as it will today, get it?

I realize you may not have the benefit of years of experience in the aviation industry, but I'm surprised that you don't know that unionized crew member's salaries ARE generally indexed, as well as including annual "aniversary" increases...of course if Netjets can get away without protecting the standard of living of Capt. B, more power to them, but I don't think that the current union seems as "green."

 

[nerdpilot]

just wondering how many guys at net jets told management they love to fly so much that they will work for crappy wages and pay for there job????

 

[FAcFriend]

I realize you may not have the benefit of years of experience in the aviation industry, but I'm surprised that you don't know that unionized crew member's salaries ARE generally indexed, as well as including annual "aniversary" increases...of course if Netjets can get away without protecting the standard of living of Capt. B, more power to them, but I don't think that the current union seems as "green."

Agreed, again on all the above points.

Key points- generally.

Plus we must remember the entire business climate is different today then a couple of years ago- It is a better time for pilots to negotiate. three years ago we were in a recession- five years ago a new industry. Now investors are wondering can NetJets cross the chasm to long term viability.

It is interesting to watch.