NetJets Interview

[Hawkered]

Family Guy

Not quite...in fact the right to be fairly represented by a union can help shield a proactive employee from suffering reprisals from a manager who sees him/her as a threat, because that individual shines a little too brightly!

Quite frankly, I would not be nearly so "helpful", if I weren't offered that protection.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Family Guy

Not quite...in fact the right to be fairly represented by a union can help shield a proactive employee from suffering reprisals from a manager who sees him/her as a threat, because that individual shines a little too brightly!

Quite frankly, I would not be nearly so "helpful", if I weren't offered that protection.

Hawkered - I wish I could say that you were wrong, but unfortunately there are managers out there that are threatened by 'rising stars'. As a result they short-sightedly hire people that are inferior to themselves so that they are not threatened. This leads to mediocrity at best, and a decline in the company or service at worst.

This is also what led to the saying - "A players hire A players, C players hire C players".

I would argue though, that management is not the only group that is afflicted with this poor personality type....they are literally everywhere....unions included.

I've personally seen (in other companies) union leaders that were in it for their own benefit and aggrandizement, not for the betterment of their peers.

 

[loverobot]

No, it's in fact the unions that eke out a parasitic life. They are renowned for artificially driving up wages beyond what supply and demand typically will support.

Management does not pay premiums to keep them off property. It has been well documented that non-union employees generally receive less pay and fewer benefits than their non-union counterparts, yet are more happy and satisfied with their jobs.

Unions must sow discontent in the ranks to justify and propogate their existance. This is what leads union members to report less job satisfaction.

On parasites: You have highlighted my point very nicely, and at the same time weakened my dispatcher freinds argument, thank you. Supply and Demand in the pilot labor market? Let me summarize: 10 pilots for every seat out there. Thank you for pointing out the Supply and Demand curve for pilots and why we need a union to keep those wages up.

Now lets talk about efficency--In simple terms the union will force the company to be more efficient. Money will have to be saved from somewhere: CEO and managers pay, streamlining operations, pressure on suppliers and vendors, consulting fees, etc. All will be carefully scrutinized and honed for maximum return.

A streamlined and "right-sized" operation will work best, won't you agree? The days of living fat and decadent are over, labor has taken a larger piece of the pie. Thats business my freind.

Oh, but you will kill the company, labor will take such a large piece that the whole thing will collapse! Not so in most cases; especially when the company in question controls nearly 2/3 of a particular market. So the companies labor costs are not nearly as flexible as they used to be, but there supplier costs just got a lot more competitive. The screws will be tightened in many areas, and the end result will be a tighter and stronger boat.

 

[loverobot]

I think its time we should recognize that this is all just a game. I would bet that if any of the company negotiators would have found themselves as pilots, instead of management folks ,you would see them out walking with picket signs and maybe even on the MEC itself.

Any rational person would see that lofty ideas of being anti or pro union are all dependent on which side of the table you find yourself. The real sad thing is a pilot who is anti-union, or a manager who is pro-union, both these guys don't know who butters their bread.

Its like buying or selling a used car: If your selling it, its a great car--if your buying it, its gonna need new tires. Know your role and how you fit into it.

So who are you "FamilyGuy", a pilot? Didn't think so.

 

[FamilyGuy]

JetBlue, NJI and all the rest of the non-union airline jobs enjoy a parasitic benefit from the union jobs. Management hates unions and will pay a premium to keep them off the property. Yourself, and the employees of the non-union ones you so envy are being paid off not to join a union.

No, it's in fact the unions that eke out a parasitic life. They are renowned for artificially driving up wages beyond what supply and demand typically will support.

Management does not pay premiums to keep them off property. It has been well documented that non-union employees generally receive less pay and fewer benefits than their non-union counterparts, yet are more happy and satisfied with their jobs.

On parasites: You have highlighted my point very nicely, and at the same time weakened my dispatcher freinds argument, thank you. Supply and Demand in the pilot labor market? Let me summarize: 10 pilots for every seat out there. Thank you for pointing out the Supply and Demand curve for pilots and why we need a union to keep those wages up.

Huh? I highlighted your point? WRONG. I proved you wrong and you move on to try and claim another unfounded point. Nice try, but no one is buying it. You're still wrong.

Now lets talk about efficency--In simple terms the union will force the company to be more efficient. Money will have to be saved from somewhere: CEO and managers pay, streamlining operations, pressure on suppliers and vendors, consulting fees, etc. All will be carefully scrutinized and honed for maximum return.

A streamlined and "right-sized" operation will work best, won't you agree? The days of living fat and decadent are over, labor has taken a larger piece of the pie. Thats business my freind.

So now you are advocating that we get more efficient and realize savings in areas of the organization simply to prop up another area so that they can "live fat and decadent"?

I will not argue that we can not or should not get more efficient as a company. We all need to do this to survive. It's the nature of business. You either continue to get more efficient over time, or your competitors will do it and put you out of business. That's business my friend.

However, as I pointed out earlier (and you agreed with), unions artificially raise the price of labor above the equilibrium point dictated by supply and demand. If this isnt the definition of living fat and decadent, what is?

Bottom line is that our pilots deserve a raise, a true raise, and they will get one. This business of matching corporate flight department pay is not realistic, and continuing to cling to that demand will simply prolong this ordeal. The reason is simple - corporate flight departments are set up as a service for the company, they are not designed to make money, in fact they normally lose money. A for profit company simply can not match the rates of a department that has no concern about operating at a loss. NJA pilots are intelligent and should recognize this, particularly in light of the fact that they also want job security for their senior years....

 

[Diesel]

What i can't understand is why familyguy spends so much time fighting his point. He has no vote, he has no control, he can't do anything about the pilots picketing, he imput here is just him talking to himself. Just like a homless person on the street talking to a telephone pole. Nobody is listening and nobody cares.

G200, and G4G5 and the other true corp department guys gave a great explanation on how a corporate flight department does indeed create money for the company.

I don't feel like digging up the thread but it was an excellent description of how it works.

Rammmmmooooon darth vader has aids.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Just like a homless person on the street talking to a telephone pole. Nobody is listening and nobody cares.

Funny....I thought the same thing when I drove over to Easton yesterday to see the picketing...

No one was looking, no one cared.

Though I did get a kick out of the guy carrying the upside down sign....doubt I'll see that on the union website though....

 

[El Chupacabra]

we know you don't care. thats why we hate you.

But I just read about an owner who was happy he was able to recover his flight on a QS tail instead of the selloff you had for him.

Lets keep things going just the way it is now....

 

[Ultra Grump]

Funny....I thought the same thing when I drove over to Easton yesterday to see the picketing...

No one was looking, no one cared.

Though I did get a kick out of the guy carrying the upside down sign....doubt I'll see that on the union website though....

Obviously you were looking and you cared - not only did you look, but you drove over to look. Then had to come here and post about it. Apparently someone looked and cared. Nice point you made there, Champ.

By the way, how exactly are you going to see anything on the union site? Seeing as it's a private, members-only, password-protected board - and according to you, you're not a member?

 

[FamilyGuy]

Obviously you were looking and you cared - not only did you look, but you drove over to look. Then had to come here and post about it. Apparently someone looked and cared. Nice point you made there, Champ.

By the way, how exactly are you going to see anything on the union site? Seeing as it's a private, members-only, password-protected board - and according to you, you're not a member?

Its like all those rubber-necks for the accident on the highway....my curiousity got the best of me.

And you do have a public union website...complete with a section for the owners and employees....right? Will we see a picture of the upside down sign there?