NetJets International Interview

[slowto250]

We make more money and are happy, and are non union. You are broke and miserable, and have been union for YEARS. Now, who is clueless? With all due respect.

With all due respect, (not fully apprised of just how much) I am not broke and miserable. I also do not fly on your NJA side of the house, but have many friends that do. I have no real dog in this hunt, except that a pilot group this large (now that they are well represented) will have a major influence on the collective futures of all we "little airplane drivers". I have watched this drama unfold ever since their contract became amendable, with great interest. My hat is off to them for staying the course, as indirectly, all will benefit from their resolve.

And BTW, I also fly a Gulfstream, and without collective bargaining you won't see a W2 like mine during your lifetime.

Oh yeah, and one more thing.......naa naa naa naa naa.

 

[Hogprint]

We make more money and are happy, and are non union. You are broke and miserable, and have been union for YEARS. Now, who is clueless? With all due respect.

Yes, you make more $....

Yes, you probably are happier...

Yes, we are broke and miserable...

Yes, we have had union representation for years...

BUT...we now have an MEC with the stones to stand and fight and try and make things better.

And yes I am probably clueless...

 

[ditch]

A guy justs wants to offer a little gouge and it turns into the same pro union/anti union/NJA/NJI/WGAF/BS thread..... A shame



Cheers

 

[Webslinger]

The planes are operated by NetJets. Gulfstream may have financed a portion of them, I don't know. But they are OPERATED by NetJets. If the judge rules that NJI is similar enough of an operation to NJA then it doesn't matter if Santulli borrowed money from Gulfstream to finance the order. If Gulfstream dosn't like the judges ruling, they can stop selling planes to NetJets or accept the fact that the jets they sell will be flown by unionized pilots. I'm sure if there's a financing problem, Uncle Warren might be able to scratch up enough for the deposits to cover what Gulfstream may have provided.

Has is dawned on anyone, especially "Majik" that Sanutlli formed and runs this company, and that "you" the pilots were offered employment, you agreed to work for a set pay, and yet you think you have a say in how he runs his company?
I guess another way to put this is, yes we would all like to have "the perfect" flying job or contract from a union that has done nothing to date for you guys..(Im speaking from experience) But what is your union going to do "Majik" if NJI and NJA are NOT combined, and you dont get your $105K raise? Are you going to stomp you feet and cry that " its not fair, they make more than us Mommy", or are you going to go to work, and provide for your family. My point is, we all know that most aviation companines from the majors to the fractionals would put pilots into slave labor for min wages if they could, like you, I dont agree with it. But it is what it is. When you started your career along with everyone else you knew this! Remeber 911 gentlemen? There are over 10,000 furloghed airline pilots still on the street from Bullsh#t Airline managment decisions, and their "Unions" havent done crap for them! Jesus Chr#st people, wake the hell UP!!! Look at UAL and USAIR for crying out loud??? Do you think there pilots have a leg to stand on? Where is ALPA when you need them? Bottom line that nobody wants to hear because its the truth is, its you job! if you dont like it quit and go flip burgers. Ok, Im off my soapbox. I say this as a Non-union,ex-netjet and current EJM pilot that is happy to have a job. I left EJA because of the pay, I didnt cry about it, I accepted it and moved on, if you dont like it quit. By the way, you should have no problem getting a high paying flying job out there right now, I heard there are alot of companies looking? Shouldnt be to much competition either with 10,000 pilots on the street? Drop me a line and let me know how that works out for ya? Better yet, why dont you ask the Teamsters? They did such a great job for "Overnight" didnt they...nuff said...let the flaming begin.

 

[Publishers]

Originally Posted by Sctt@NJA
The thing about NJI that frosts us NJA guys when we think about it is simple. We were cruising along with this whole fractional thing, adding new aircraft types to the fleet and all is well. Then the Gulfstreams come along and for some reason a whole new non-union entity is created to fly these airplanes. I have heard a couple different versions of how this came to be and honestly I can say I don't know the whole truth of the matter.

But it makes us kinda mad and a little worried and it shouldn't be hard to see why. What is stop NetJets from creating another non-union branch the next time they decide to buy a new type of airplane? The answer of course is scope. Why our union allowed NJI to slip by is pretty hard to imagine.

When looking at NetJets from a historical perspective it is clear... those guys are flying our airplanes."


Obviously when you form a joint venture with a partner, they get to make some requirements. Gulfstream said if you want to do this, you will do this part our way. What you all have a hard time with is that these are not "your" aircraft. As a matter of fact, none of the aircraft at either company are "your aircraft". Netjets provides crew services and aircraft partnering services to owners. I believe that ultimately this is where the argument will fail in union negotiations. NJA nor NJI owns what they fly.

 

[ultrarunner]

Publishers, NJI is nothing more than an alter-ego airline. It's as simple as that.

And the reason it slipped by is because you're not being represented by a pilot union, but a union with a completely different philosophy. It's as simple as that.

 

[Some Dude]

NJI pilots are the LOWEST PAID GIV AND GV PILOTS in the country. It's great place to work if you don't mind violating the FARs on a regular basis. Putting your ATP certificate on the line everyday. Knowing that some smuck that hired on at NJI is making more bank than someone senior to him. It's just another piss poor Shamtulli company. Yeah better be one hell of a kiss ass cause that's what it takes to keep you job there. You can't say NO.

 

[ultrarunner]

BOO HOO. Looser. You don't like it? Don't do it?

I get tired of this hearing this crap!

 

[Some guy]

I'm sure if there's a financing problem, Uncle Warren might be able to scratch up enough for the deposits to cover what Gulfstream may have provided.

I don't seem to understand why many people think that Berkshire Hathaway money is NetJets money. Just because NJ is owned by BH doesn't mean that anytime the company needs money that BH should just hand it over.

"Uncle Warren" bought the company and invested more money than all of would know what to do with. NJ does have to pay that money back and are expecting yearly returns from us. (I'm not sure of the numbers)

 

[Publishers]

I believe that the simplicity of the alter ego airline may well be lost in definition when it gets to the legal stage.

It may be that those deciding the case will not think that you are an air carrier but except by a circuitious route. In fact, the recent changes made by the FAA and constant talk about Fractionals being something different may in fact hurt that position.

While I do not have all the answers to this question, what I am sure of is that it will be a prolonged procedure, in the end you might look back and wonder if it was really worth it, and, was this all necessary.

Another small factor would be proving that EJI was created to be an alter ego airline offering less wages to undercut you since that does not seem to be the case. Secondly because it is equally obvious that Gulfstream themselves may have made the rules up regarding this entiity, flown under Netjets or not, the tact of it being a labor deal does not make sense.

If you understand labor union mentality, the argument that this slipped by makes no sense when they are attracted to the higher pay.I suspect that is why it was not addressed before.