NetJets in 2012/13 ???

[CA1900]

... and force you to get trained in Montreal ...

Let's see: cool city with beautiful women everywhere you look, or... Columbus. I think I'll take one for the team and be "forced" to go to Montreal.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I guess I was wrong on the Globals. NJA must have got an incredible deal from Bombardier while Gulfstream refused to budge. I thought that the Embraer order would have forced all the manufacturers to realize nothing is sacred at NJA any more. The sales and mx departments have their work cut out for them now. I hope it doesn't end up being like the Hawker 400 order- make the money on the sales and then eat it when the airplanes don't perform. I wonder how many loyal Gulfstream owners will walk or buy their own- probably from NJA trying to get rid of around 50 airframes there.

W W C D*






*Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner

Trademark authorization courtesy Wolfpackpilot

 

[ozpilot]

Let's see: cool city with beautiful women everywhere you look, or... Columbus. I think I'll take one for the team and be "forced" to go to Montreal.

Reminds me of when I was upgrading at Comair. Had to choose between Cincinnati and Berlin. Guess where I went?

 

[Diesel]

I'm bidding it just to go to Montreaul. St Cathrine street here I come, poutine, smoked meat. I'm pumped.

I could give two craps about the plane.

 

[NachoMamma]

I could give two craps about the plane.

Thank you. Finally, a refreshing dose of reality in this FI starry eyed gulfstream bonerfest.

 

[Taildraggaah]

And it has NEVER met the advertised range, endurance, or runway performance.

I fly a Global and a 5000 and this is not our experience at all. performance books are some of the best I've seen, i.e, 120 ref at near gross landing weight with a LFL of 3600 feet. Flown the plane 13:30 on a leg over 6000nm.

 

[jonjuan]

I fly a Global and a 5000 and this is not our experience at all. performance books are some of the best I've seen, i.e, 120 ref at near gross landing weight with a LFL of 3600 feet. Flown the plane 13:30 on a leg over 6000nm.

Shhhhhhh-gutshotdraw and all the other gstream scientologists believe what they want to believe, despite having never operated one. Wait, doesn't Tom Cruise own a gstream? Hmmmmmm, coincidence?

 

[cush]

gstream scientologists

That's some funny $hit right there!

 

[gunfyter]

That's some funny $hit right there!

Yeah but he is looking for a lawsuit with that remark ... Dooker has the patent and all rights to Funny $hit on this board.... :laugh:

 

[jonjuan]

Yeah but he is looking for a lawsuit with that remark ... Dooker has the patent and all rights to Funny $hit on this board.... :laugh:

Sorry- Dooker does own all rights to funny sh1t posted here. Sorry Dooker, no slight intended.

 

[cush]

I could give two craps about the plane.

Really?! This coming from a former NJA PIC who has given up more than 50K a year for several years to be a G-Whiz SIC...I somehow doubt that.

 

[gret]

Thank you. Finally, a refreshing dose of reality in this FI starry eyed gulfstream bonerfest.

A lot of our thoughts, although we may have said it a bit differently.

Bombardier makes great airplanes..now the family that has the control of the business is a little daffy...but why should that matter?

BTW...NetJets isn't out of the woods by any means and hopefully this announcement isn't a repeat of the blowhard statements that were made a few years ago by Warren and others.

The numbers in the 10-K are still hard to believe when you take into account the published reports of flight activity, a/c prices, decreased share sales, and everyone else is losing their butts, etc. Management of NetJets, except Sokel, are really unproved items, and personal experience says they aren't too bright.

 

[batsky2000]

Let's see: cool city with beautiful women everywhere you look, or... Columbus. I think I'll take one for the team and be "forced" to go to Montreal.

I take it you have never done any training in Montreal, I have for the 605 and it was pretty sub-standard like their product, ask anyone who had to go to the Bombardier training center for their Global or Challenger training, and you will get the same statement....I will stick with Flight Safety...

On top of that lets see, I can stick with Flight Safety in Savannah for "G" school which is only a 3 hour drive for me, or I can airline somewhere nicer and have to deal with all of the security and airport hassles, I take Savannah, anytime I can drive and not have to airline, I can care less where the location is.....

 

[imacdog]

I've been to the center in Montreal for CRJ training. Montreal was awesome and the training was just fine. We used company instructors instead of CAE, but I don't really believe FSI's training is that much superior to their competition.

 

[gunfyter]

I've been to the center in Montreal for CRJ training. Montreal was awesome and the training was just fine. We used company instructors instead of CAE, but I don't really believe FSI's training is that much superior to their competition.

It is in the Gulfstream because (if we have learned anything in the last 15 years) everything in that plane is superior.

 

[NachoMamma]

A lot of our thoughts, although we may have said it a bit differently.

I beg to differ...there simply is not a more articulate word in the entire English language than "bonerfest". :laugh:

 

[jonjuan]

It is in the Gulfstream because (if we have learned anything in the last 15 years) everything in that plane is superior.

Especially those all the way up front.

 

[Dirty Dingus]

Especially those all the way up front.

Truer words were never spoken!!!!!!

 

[johnsonrod]

I thought Netjets had ordered something like 20-30 Gulfstream 450s and 550s a few years back for both NJA and NJE. Have they all been delivered? If not, how will the Global order impact the existing Gulfstream order? Will the Globals also go to Netjets Europe?

 

[dudemize]

I thought Netjets had ordered something like 20-30 Gulfstream 450s and 550s a few years back for both NJA and NJE. Have they all been delivered? If not, how will the Global order impact the existing Gulfstream order? Will the Globals also go to Netjets Europe?

Those deliveries start next year.

 

[jtf]

Those deliveries were more for NJ Mideast if I remember correctly. It will be interesting to see where they go though, with the China operation most likely coming on line next year also.

 

[gret]

From an interview with the CEO of Gulfstream in May, 2010-

The annual report also mentions a $1.4 billion long-term backlog for fractional aircraft, which is not included in the $19.3 billion backlog. Why?

We elected some years ago to take NetJets out of our backlog. There were questions about how many of these are options, how many have deposits, and so we decided to take them out until they are firmed up and close to delivery. We have long-term contracts and I cannot talk about them specifically. Obviously, NetJets has been going through some changes this year.

​

I'm not too sure that any Gulfstreams are scheduled to be delivered.

 

[Mike Jenvey]

Across at NJE, we haven't (yet) had any specific information about when/if/how many Globals will come our way.

However, we had had some details explaining where they might compare to our existing fleets (cabin size, numbers of pax, range, performance, equipment, etc); on that basis, it seems reasonable to suggest that we will take a %% of the orders.

Bouncing around the numbers, we have been told that there are more Global Express/XRS airframes in Europe than GV/G550s.......

 

[johnsonrod]

Across at NJE, we haven't (yet) had any specific information about when/if/how many Globals will come our way.

However, we had had some details explaining where they might compare to our existing fleets (cabin size, numbers of pax, range, performance, equipment, etc); on that basis, it seems reasonable to suggest that we will take a %% of the orders.

Bouncing around the numbers, we have been told that there are more Global Express/XRS airframes in Europe than GV/G550s.......

Mike,

Thanks for the post - always informative. Given that you guys in Europe also fly the Falcon 7X, what do you think is the thinking regarding ultimate fleet mix in Europe? I know you already operate the GV (older version) and the G550. Do you think the Globals would cannibalize the 7X market or vice versa? How many more 7X airframes are on the way for NJE?

Like at NJA, I would think that NJE would also want to consolidate fleet types and the GV, G550, 7X and now potentially the Global would translate into quite a few types at the top with little opportunity to scale and spread costs effectively...

 

[Mike Jenvey]

johnsonrod, sorry for the delay in replying; had a 0200z/0500L wake-up call in Moscow this morning, it's much warmer here in Nice (via Paris)!


<<<< ….. what do you think is the thinking regarding ultimate fleet mix in Europe? >>>>

If I knew that, I’d be the CEO! However, looking at our type of operations, together with the comparison information that was given to us, I would guess that when we have enough numbers, it will become a strong contender for the work-horse of the Long Range (LR) fleet. However, as all owners like new toys, who knows? Maybe it will take an even more significant lead?? We would then have 3 LR types, F7x, Global XRS, & GV/G550.

<<< Do you think the Globals would cannibalize the 7X market or vice versa? >>>>

The comparison data is quite interesting, & the details all look to be factual, rather than sales “bull.”. Without giving commercial secrets away, it seems that the requirement to carry 14 pax &/or maximum range for the G550, is a small %% of our total usage. Not big surprises there really. So, as the Global XRS has a cabin that is bigger in all respects compared to both the G550 & F7x, it might be quite popular with the pax (& you can have a mid-cabin bulkhead – removable – for extra privacy). Apparently, the Global is also quieter in flight that the G550, & has better landing performance (auto-brakes + leading edge slats) = shorter runways?? Baggage = more than the F7x but slightly less than the G550. Global is approved ETOPs 180, same as the G550 = more direct routings for oceanic sectors. Of course, the F7x has an advantage of 3 engines, but you can’t stretch oceanic alternates too far!

Overall, the Global is fly-by-wire, lots of toys for the pilots to play with, & looks very good for the pax. It’s been around for long enough to shake down most of the initial teething/Mx issues. It could be a nice package all round.

<<<< How many more 7X airframes are on the way for NJE? >>>>

Sorry, not sure. I suspect that Dassault might have had their nose put out of joint for the large delays/cancellations that we hit them with & there seems to be a big demand for private F7x airframes = potential difficulties with getting a production slot?? Also, to me, the F7x is an expensive Gucci toy, notwithstanding the 3 engine capability & the certification for London City airport, which is quite handy. My crystal ball is very cloudy, but I would be guessing at 1 – 2 airframes next year. We currently have 2, so to my mind (maybe completely wrong), it makes it a little hard to operate as a “fleet” – if you have one on a LR flight, & the other in Europe & you get 2 bookings = gotta throw an equivalent aircraft at one of them = a G550. Would we let the F7x airframes go to minimise the number of LR fleets? Hmmm, that's a difficult one, not gonna quote odds for that!

So, we shall have to see if my forecasts are accurate!

 

[G4dude]

How good is dispatch reliability on the 7X?

 

[Mike Jenvey]

<<<< How good is dispatch reliability on the 7X? >>>>

I don't have specific figures to quote, but it seems to be on a par with the G550, maybe very slightly better.

 

[FLYLOW22]

"Very slightly"?

 

[Mike Jenvey]

<<<< "Very slightly"? >>>>

Depends on which pilot from what fleet I am listening to!

I can't pin it down objectively, & subjectively, as we currently only have 2 F7x aircraft, you tend to bump into G500 crews more often = more "feedback" from them.....but of course, it ain't biased.......