NetJets Citation X Program

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Posted by Trainerjet:

"What incentive does the company have to settle this new contract when there are pilots lining up by the thousands that are willing to wait months and months to accept a job with your company under the current pay and working conditions"


This is a strange question from a person with 8,000 hours, but here's something to think about.

Why do the major airlines pay so much when they also have a long line of highly qualified applicants that is perhaps a decade deep right now? Perhaps there is more to getting paid what you're worth than just how many people could take your place.

I believe that NJA will become the premier non-airline flying job in the world after our contract is settled amicably. A contract or two down the road, it may be the premier flying job PERIOD.

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[Diesel]

"I really don't know what is going on, but really don't care that much. This is the best retirement job anyone could have, and I would do it for half the money. Just tell me where to find my Falcon. Never had this much fun with my pants on"

Unfortunatly it's that attitude from the retirees at this company might limit what's coming to us.

There are a lot of guys here that this is their beer money job. Then there are guys like me that this IS their job.

Some of these retirement guys think that a 20% payraise is more than enough. To that i want to beat them with a lead pipe. I hear it a lot on the road.

]"I really don't know what is going on, but really don't care that much.

That one line makes me want to throw this computer out the window.

 

[Cliff]

Unfortunatly it's that attitude from the retirees at this company might limit what's coming to us.

There are a lot of guys here that this is their beer money job. Then there are guys like me that this IS their job.

Some of these retirement guys think that a 20% payraise is more than enough. To that i want to beat them with a lead pipe. I hear it a lot on the road.



That one line makes me want to throw this computer out the window.

I'm at NJA and I'm retired and I think your post is full of bull.. Very close minded...

 

[Cliff]

WHOA.......you guys fly too much when you are on schedule.

1. NJA is not EJI....

2. Yep I fly to much 20 to 30 hours a month..

 

[Diesel]

Cliff while I appreciate your response it's not bull. Talk to guys on the road. There is definetly a difference between what a retired guy wants and someone who is in the middle of their career.

I'm not sure what plane your in but I fly 70-80 hrs a month. You must be either in the 7 or 2000 to fly that little. That also make you want different things. I bust my arse for the whole month. I want what's coming to me.

A right seater in the 2000 just has to start the apu. Definetly a different job.

My point of the original comment was that ther retired guys don't have as much to lose. Say the company says 20% payraise they say fine because they will only be here for another couple of years or less. They've got another source of income.

For us guys who are living paycheck to paycheck we have a lot more to loose. I'm willing to fight a lot harder to do what it takes to get the money and work rules coming to me. I know i'll be here for a long time. I'm going to make sure the work rules are right for the long and short term.

 

[1900cpt]

I have to agree with Diesel on this one. There are plenty of guys that I have run inot on the road that think 20 or 30 percent is plenty. WTF?!?

Maybe if you are getting a retirement from the airlines or a pension from the military. I plan on being here a long time, and so do many others. That kind of increase wont do jack for us.

1900cpt

 

[Gandolf]

It appears that the idea that "retired" guys at NetJets are willing to accept much less out of a new contract is quite prevalent with some pilots. As a retired guy and a NetJets pilot, let me say that I fully expect any new contract to pay the full market rate plus a premium for the extra nights on the road. I am not sure what that market rate is, but three years ago, I was paid more as an SIC on a CE 650 that a 2nd year captain makes at NJA, and for a lot fewer nights in a hotel. I don't see 100% as unreasonable, given the abysmal wages now. I would also expect to see major improvements in fly from home, alternative work schedules, AND enforcement of contract provisions.

Perhaps I am one of the few retired guys who feel this way, but I think a lot of us are not as concerned with the totals on our W-2 forms as some of the younger guys, but we are concerned with being compensated fairly for our efforts. It may be that some would like to work fewer days for the same money they are making now. Some may be more concerned with health insurance, tax deferred retirements, etc. It still comes down to a substantial improvement.

Also, don't forget that the "retired" guys could be the most militant of all the pilots if push comes to shove in the negotiations. If the contract is a major disappointment (or if it is backloaded so that major improvements don't come until Year 3 or 4, NetJets could see a major exodus of pilots who really don't need $45K/year to be pounded with 6-days of "show-at-legal", tour after tour. And should it ever come down to some sort of job action, those retired guys can probably afford to be without a paycheck for a longer time than the younger guys with mortgages and kids to educate.

I came to NetJets with the expectation that professionals at the market-leading company were going to be paid market leading wages and I expect the MEC will deliver that. If they don't, or if the company doesn't, they can call me at the golf course <G>.

 

[Duke of Ale]

I too am a retired guy at NJA and add me to the list of those that will not accept a 20-30% pay raise no matter how good the rest of the contract is. All the retired guys I know are looking for 6 figures in yr 3. I will be a 4 yr Capt this winter and my numbers are 10K/mo and 100% retro lump sum, not spread over time.

 

[1900cpt]

Glad to see that some of the retirees at NJA are throwing in their opinions!! You should ask around on the road and see what kind of responses you get. You might be surprised.


1900cpt

 

[EMB145]

Hoping for a Good, Fair Contract

There is the other side to this story.
Many of the airline fourloughed pilots are very, perhaps too militant. Some mention 300 to 400% payraises with unrealistic scheduling and benefits. I am all out for aiming high, but if it is too high, you might just miss the target completely. The constant mentioning of Warren Buffet and his wealth is pretty ignorant. The contract has nothing to do with that as well it has nothing to do with how many pilots are lining up at the door. I sure would like to continue to work for a financially secure company where we have decent pilot-management relationship. I have no desire to have one or two huge paychecks just before the company is closing its doors.
This is where comperative market analysis comes into play.
Looking at many variables, I don't think 100% raise across the board is unrealistic at all with opportunity to grow into higher paying A/C and better schedule with seniority.
Good luck to us all.