NetJets Citation X Program

[1900cpt]

I have to agree with Diesel on this one. There are plenty of guys that I have run inot on the road that think 20 or 30 percent is plenty. WTF?!?

Maybe if you are getting a retirement from the airlines or a pension from the military. I plan on being here a long time, and so do many others. That kind of increase wont do jack for us.

1900cpt

 

[Gandolf]

It appears that the idea that "retired" guys at NetJets are willing to accept much less out of a new contract is quite prevalent with some pilots. As a retired guy and a NetJets pilot, let me say that I fully expect any new contract to pay the full market rate plus a premium for the extra nights on the road. I am not sure what that market rate is, but three years ago, I was paid more as an SIC on a CE 650 that a 2nd year captain makes at NJA, and for a lot fewer nights in a hotel. I don't see 100% as unreasonable, given the abysmal wages now. I would also expect to see major improvements in fly from home, alternative work schedules, AND enforcement of contract provisions.

Perhaps I am one of the few retired guys who feel this way, but I think a lot of us are not as concerned with the totals on our W-2 forms as some of the younger guys, but we are concerned with being compensated fairly for our efforts. It may be that some would like to work fewer days for the same money they are making now. Some may be more concerned with health insurance, tax deferred retirements, etc. It still comes down to a substantial improvement.

Also, don't forget that the "retired" guys could be the most militant of all the pilots if push comes to shove in the negotiations. If the contract is a major disappointment (or if it is backloaded so that major improvements don't come until Year 3 or 4, NetJets could see a major exodus of pilots who really don't need $45K/year to be pounded with 6-days of "show-at-legal", tour after tour. And should it ever come down to some sort of job action, those retired guys can probably afford to be without a paycheck for a longer time than the younger guys with mortgages and kids to educate.

I came to NetJets with the expectation that professionals at the market-leading company were going to be paid market leading wages and I expect the MEC will deliver that. If they don't, or if the company doesn't, they can call me at the golf course <G>.

 

[Duke of Ale]

I too am a retired guy at NJA and add me to the list of those that will not accept a 20-30% pay raise no matter how good the rest of the contract is. All the retired guys I know are looking for 6 figures in yr 3. I will be a 4 yr Capt this winter and my numbers are 10K/mo and 100% retro lump sum, not spread over time.

 

[1900cpt]

Glad to see that some of the retirees at NJA are throwing in their opinions!! You should ask around on the road and see what kind of responses you get. You might be surprised.


1900cpt

 

[EMB145]

Hoping for a Good, Fair Contract

There is the other side to this story.
Many of the airline fourloughed pilots are very, perhaps too militant. Some mention 300 to 400% payraises with unrealistic scheduling and benefits. I am all out for aiming high, but if it is too high, you might just miss the target completely. The constant mentioning of Warren Buffet and his wealth is pretty ignorant. The contract has nothing to do with that as well it has nothing to do with how many pilots are lining up at the door. I sure would like to continue to work for a financially secure company where we have decent pilot-management relationship. I have no desire to have one or two huge paychecks just before the company is closing its doors.
This is where comperative market analysis comes into play.
Looking at many variables, I don't think 100% raise across the board is unrealistic at all with opportunity to grow into higher paying A/C and better schedule with seniority.
Good luck to us all.

 

[Lrjet55]

Here is my response to the 100% pay raise issue. Everyone is making such a big deal about NJA pilots asking for a 100% pay raise. What everyone is freaking about is the fact that we are asking for 100%. If everyone knew what we made then 100% would make alot more sense.

 

[Gandolf]

You are right that 100% would bring us up to where the market is, but (and it's a BIG but), most of the the country's workforce is lucky to be getting 3,4, and 5% pay increases, especially when inflation and interest rates are running so low. I think it would be hard for most outside observers (and even some inside ones who are used to thinking in historical terms) to have much sympathy for a group asking for a 100% raise, effective immediately. This is especially true for those who have no idea that a NetJets pilot starts at $28K. So while "100%" is a useful shorthand for those who are familiar with the facts, it is not going to garner much sympathy with those outside. They might ask (and rightly, in my opinion), "How could you pilots be so stupid to agree to a contract that would require 100% raise in order to get market-level wages?" Stating the same case as $100K for a five-year captain would make a lot more sense to these people!

 

[Gandolf]

You are right that 100% would bring us up to where the market is, but (and it's a BIG but), most of the the country's workforce is lucky to be getting 3,4, and 5% pay increases, especially when inflation and interest rates are running so low. I think it would be hard for most outside observers (and even some inside ones who are used to thinking in historical terms) to have much sympathy for a group asking for a 100% raise, effective immediately. This is especially true for those who have no idea that a NetJets pilot starts at $28K. So while "100%" is a useful shorthand for those who are familiar with the facts, it is not going to garner much sympathy with those outside. They might ask (and rightly, in my opinion), "How could you pilots be so stupid to agree to a contract that would require 100% raise in order to get market-level wages?" Stating the same case as $100K for a five-year captain would make a lot more sense to these people!

 

[Duke of Ale]

To Gandolf:

I would make that 3rd yr Capt at 100K/yr or better.

 

[EMB145]

Gandolph.

You are correct about the sympathy and the sorry state that requires 100% raise to be at market level. However, sympathy is not required here at all. We are not at the airlines, serving the masses. I don't think many pilots give a rats how the public feels about our pay and benefits. We are an obscure, little company, perhaps make the 15th page in the Columbus, OH paper if we go on strike.
As far as the low salaries go, MY THEORY is that at the signing of the previous contract majority of pilots were transient, enroute to the majors, or retired pilots making beer money and child support to the 4th flight attendant wife. Just like at the (so called)regionals: we will pay you low since you will be leaving; we will leave because you pay us so low. The circle.
The situation is changed significantly here and at the regionals. Even 22 year olds are concerned about good pay, long term benefits and retirement. This may very well be our last job, so let's make it a well paying one, with keeping company health and good employee-management relationship in sight.

 

[Gandolf]

I agree completely. Wherever you are in the industry right now is probably where you are going to be 10 years from now (and that's for the lucky ones)! And the older you are, the more true that is!

It will be very hard for any management to present any flying job as "paying your dues" in order to get the big bucks later on. Consolidation, not growth, will be the norm for 95% of aviation for the forseeable future. And as for making this job something that sustain a decent lifestyle and a final career move, I'm 100% with you. Given my salary progression over the past decade, I fear my next job could be slinging fries at McDonalds<G>.

 

[FracPilot]

They might ask (and rightly, in my opinion), "How could you pilots be so stupid to agree to a contract that would require 100% raise in order to get market-level wages?" Stating the same case as $100K for a five-year captain would make a lot more sense to these people!

To other pilots, that might make more sense. To the general public, that thinks that most pilots are severely overpaid as it is(and I am not referring to owners), I don't think it would help your case.