Netjets Casino employees

[sikntired]

Familyguy,
Why do you have such an insatiable need for information? Are you being paid by Netjets management to engage a few pilots in a "debate"? Piss 'em off & get 'em to spill?
Just wondering.

I'm sikntired

 

[FamilyGuy]

Familyguy,
Why do you have such an insatiable need for information? Are you being paid by Netjets management to engage a few pilots in a "debate"? Piss 'em off & get 'em to spill?
Just wondering.

I'm sikntired

Simple, I've invested many years of my life here at Executive Jet/NetJets and I hate to see a great company ruined because people are arguing over the size of a raise....

There are thousands of pilots and other aviation people out on the streets right now wishing they were in our shoes and all we can seem to do is argue.

Personally, I dont want to see any of this discussed on a public board. It is embarrassing and serves no purpose. The union and the company should negotiate behind closed doors and not air our dirty laundry in public.

 

[Some Dude]

Once again "Family Guy and Fred" won't acknowledge the fact that the FLIGHT CREWS are always at the top of customer satisfaction surveys.

The OWNERS ALWAYS RANK THE FLIGHT CREWS AS HIGHLY PROFEESIONAL AND COMPETENT. No other department comes close to that level of customer satisfaction. Once again they fail or cannot deny the facts of my posts. They try to deflect the truth.

You want professionalism. We have it. I have been intrusted with the safety of the former President of the United States and his family including the current President and his family. I think that speaks volumes about NJA flight crews and the level of professionalism displayed every day. I see people at the casino working their butts off only to be led down the wrong path by clueless management. I really feel sorry for them.

Why don't you offer solutions to fix NJA problems? The flight crews offer real world solutions every single day. Yet not one of you have the balls to take on the facts.

Well I'm waiting...........

 

[FAcFriend]

That was also working a 6 & 4 schedule to get that number. About 38 more work days per year. /I]


Ok, I thought I included the additional work days in the 15 k. But I was wrong. You and another pilot pointed that out to me.

The additional work days cannot be figured in at 15k you have to really count 16k but to be safe we will figure 17k. 17k x 2000 pilots = 34,000,000.00 dollars

ok, so 106-17k = 89k at 5 year captain. What does a 5 year captain make today?


(I edited this post because I looked at the figure again.)

 

[FamilyGuy]

Once again "Family Guy and Fred" won't acknowledge the fact that the FLIGHT CREWS are always at the top of customer satisfaction surveys.

The OWNERS ALWAYS RANK THE FLIGHT CREWS AS HIGHLY PROFEESIONAL AND COMPETENT. No other department comes close to that level of customer satisfaction. Once again they fail or cannot deny the facts of my posts. They try to deflect the truth.

You want professionalism. We have it. I have been intrusted with the safety of the former President of the United States and his family including the current President and his family. I think that speaks volumes about NJA flight crews and the level of professionalism displayed every day. I see people at the casino working their butts off only to be led down the wrong path by clueless management. I really feel sorry for them.

I'm sorry, when did I ever fail to "acknowledge the fact that the FLIGHT CREWS are always at the top of customer satisfaction surveys"?

Go back and read my posts. I've never stated that the flight crews have failed to be professional when dealing with our owners.

You must have been confused when I made the following statement:

From my perspective, the union is taking the low road and management is taking the high road by repeatedly complimenting the pilot group on its professionalism and never degrading them in public. This is in sharp contrast with the unions approach. As Boisture has said in the roundtable meetings - its about treating people with respect. I just dont see that from the union.

All I have seen is management falling all over themselves to tell you guys how 'professional' you are.

My point is that you could benefit by exhibiting some of that professionalism in your negotiation tactics and style.

Why don't you offer solutions to fix NJA problems? The flight crews offer real world solutions every single day. Yet not one of you have the balls to take on the facts.

Well I'm waiting...........

Are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else? That must be what's happening here, because if you've read my posts you'll see that I've already made the following statement:

I've seen a lot of people make cost saving suggestions. Some have been implemented and money saved. Other times the person making the suggestion did not know all of the details and once they were filled in on the 'bigger picture' they realized that their suggestion wouldnt be the best choice. The important point is that the management was open to suggestions and gave us feedback, yes or no, that the ideas would work....then they acted on the good ones.

I've worked a lot of jobs and this is the most open environment I've seen to suggestions from the employees. Is it perfect? No, but what company is?

 

[FAcFriend]

oops guys answering my own questions and for everyone else:


This is post #93 from another thread:

-------CAPT/yr------F/O
YR 1 36K 27K
YR 2 40K 28K
YR 3 47K 29K
YR 4 56K 30K
YR 5 60K 32K
YR 8 70K 32K
YR 12 88K 32K

You have to stay there at while to get the $70K to $90K mentioned before. Source Airline Pilot Central rounded to a yearly wage.__________________

so 60k is what a 5 yr captain makes today and you were offered a 106 less benefits ( benefits include both time and traditional benefits) of 17k for about 89k.

The one thing this does do- which I would hate is spread all the OT etc around to everyone.

I am piecing things together from this board- but does everyone agree that basically this is where you are today-

 

[FredGarvin]

Must be really tough to squeeze into that small cockpit with such a big ego.

I've seen your light.

Let me summarize....

If we just got rid of all the clueless management and all the dumbasses in fort fumble, take all those wasted salaries and paid the pilots more everything would fall into place. Just planes and pilots, that’s all we really need. After all being HIGHLY PROFEESIONAL AND COMPETENT they can take care everything else, they already do.

That is a real world solution.

 

[Diesel]

All I have seen is management falling all over themselves to tell you guys how 'professional' you are.

Too bad that doesn't pay the bills.

 

[Some Dude]

Once again Fred, provide some solutions. You still haven't. The OWNERS rate us the highest on the surveys. The Union has saved the company millions of dollars with real solutions. We also fill out waste management reports to help the company identify areas where they can save money. What have you done? Keep deflecting the facts that won't solve anything. Maybe you are one of the clueless in management.

 

[Hogprint]

FamilyGuy, I respectfully disagree...

And I still dont buy this argument that the company has stalled on this for three years. If the old MEC was a bunch of company stooges that gave the company everything they wanted and 9/11 has just occurred - throwing thousands of pilots out on the street, why wouldnt the Company immediately press for a kick-ass agreement in favor of the company? They were holding all the cards....why not drive the dagger home and get everything they wanted (like the legacy carrier managements are currently doing)?

I don't follow this line of reason. Why would the company want to give us a "kick ass agreement" right after 9/11, when thousands of pilots were hitting the streets? The laws of supply and demand kicked in, and now not only could the company pick and choose from 5000 hr plus experience , but we had a stack of resumes up to the roof over at Poth Rd (kind of shoots that "you knew what you were getting into theory " to bits). People were looking for flying jobs (and lowering standards) to keep food on the table.

IMO, the union didnt want to do a deal during 2002-2003 simply because the economy sucked and they wouldnt be able to get what they wanted.....so they waste time going over every single article in the contract and bide their time until the economy turns around. Then they start to kick up a fuss, complaining as loudly and widely as they can about the injustice of waiting 1300 days.

I don't disagree with this. The former MEC made quite a few mistakes, but you still can't overlook the companys role in dragging this out to this point. They are benifiting in the short term with this plan. My fear (and it has been voiced on both sides of this debate on this board) is that it will be far from benificial in the long term.

Take your own advice Hogprint and read between the lines....the union was stringing this whole deal out waiting for better economic times to bargain....[/QUOTE]

Thank you. I will continue to read between the lines, look at this from every angle, and try to educate myself during this process.

This is a first for the fractionals. Don't know about corporate, but everyone is tuning in to see what happens. BOS approch control asked me the other day, what was going to happen on the 24th! They sent us their support!

Point is whichever way this thing goes, it will have far reaching impact on the industry.

 

[gern_blanston]

I don't follow this line of reason. Why would the company want to give us a "kick ass agreement" right after 9/11, when thousands of pilots were hitting the streets?

He meant a 'kick ass agreement' for the company, not the pilots. It seems a valid point. The company held all the cards at that time.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Too bad that doesn't pay the bills.

$100,000 doesnt pay your bills? What is your lifestyle Diesel that you can pay your bills with that kind of money?

It sounds to me like you've fallen into that common trap of confusing WANTS with NEEDS.

There are hundreds of people here in the casino that make a third of that and are able to pay their bills every month.

If I had that kind of money I could afford 2 homes, fund my 401k and IRA's for my wife and I, and put the kids in private school.

Maybe you should consider a class on budgeting. To get you started, take a look at all of your current monthly expenses....the first thing I'd look at is those union dues...how much does that set you back? One pound of flesh or two?

Maybe that's the real reason why $100k isnt enough...the union dues are too high. Maybe you should take a look at how much of your dues are going to fund these teamsters salaries....

http://www.tdu.org/_100_000_Club_2004.pdf

 

[Elevator 2]

$100,000 doesnt pay your bills? What is your lifestyle Diesel that you can pay your bills with that kind of money?

It sounds to me like you've fallen into that common trap of confusing WANTS with NEEDS.

There are hundreds of people here in the casino that make a third of that and are able to pay their bills every month.

If I had that kind of money I could afford 2 homes, fund my 401k and IRA's for my wife and I, and put the kids in private school.

Maybe you should consider a class on budgeting. To get you started, take a look at all of your current monthly expenses....the first thing I'd look at is those union dues...how much does that set you back? One pound of flesh or two?

Maybe that's the real reason why $100k isnt enough...the union dues are too high. Maybe you should take a look at how much of your dues are going to fund these teamsters salaries....

http://www.tdu.org/_100_000_Club_2004.pdf

And the drama continues.... welcome to the dollhouse.

 

[abenaki]

1) I don't give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** what anyone at Bridgeway thinks of me or this pilot group....and therefore, I don't give **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** what you have to say on this board. You don't pay my bills, you aren't responsible for putting my kids through school, making my car payments and you sure as he..ll have no right to make a determination as to what a reasonable salary is for ME in mY profession.

BB makes a reported $1.2 million a year! And that doesn't include his free flying on NJA aircraft whenever he wants. Why don't you go tell HIM what is reasonable for him to make!

2) Unless you are FULLY informed as to backgrounds of each and every pilot here, the background of this industry, the commonly used union busting tactics that BB and his minions are using, what it took to achieve the positions that we have in terms of training, experience and education as professional pilots, the job that we do every day to make this place run, and a DETAILED understanding of the history of these negotiations starting four years ago, then you have no place in commenting on what actions we take to achieve what we think is best for us and our families.

2) This same sort of nonsensical bickering has occurred time and time again in the history of contractual negotiations with people outside the group who are engaged in the fight, telling those doing the fighting what/when/why/where and how they are wrong wrong wrong about everything. This is a waste of time and energy for all involved. The management moles on here have no clue as to the uselessness of their efforts. Quite the contrary, they may actually be hurting their "cause" because of the ignorant posts they make.

3) If you are too nai've not to understand the propaganda/spin and outright lies told by the company in the course of these events, then I suggest that you read I WAS A UNION BUSTER.....you will find that everything being said to you and to the union by the company and "Bridgeway Bob" is right out of the tactics outlined in that book. The problem is management is too silly stupid to understand that by employing such tactics, they are simply unifying the group more and more. It was all a suprise at one point in history, but once you've seen the play run a few times, it looses it effectiveness and ends up costing you yards. Such tactics unified the pilot groups at other airlines and in some cases it cost the airlines dearly.

4) And while getting into the specific arguments on here is something I LOATHE to do, I will address one simply out of it's completely warped rationale as an illustration as to the ignorant level of posts on here by those who are trying to tell others what is best for them....

Family Guy said the following:

"$100,000 doesnt pay your bills?.....If I had that kind of money I could afford 2 homes, fund my 401k and IRA's for my wife and I, and put the kids in private school"......

Please explain to me Family Guy how you could do all of the above on $100K a year? I would be interested......

$100K a year translates into about 60K a year with taxes and 401K contributions. My check is about 60% of gross.....so, just for sake of argument, I'll chip in another 12K and make it 72K a year take home.....

Now, please explain to me how you are going to have two homes and put your kids in private school on 6k a month? Are we talking two single wides here? And by private school you mean kindergarten? The private school where I live is about $18k a year......what's yours? My kids go to public school......

Please outline a budget for me where you can do all of that on 6k a month in take home pay. Car payments? Food? Utilities? Clothes? Property taxes? Insurances? Medical expenses? Entertainment? Braces? Tuitions? Fee? Books? Travel? Vacation? Gas? Maintenance?

That's the problem with these discussions. They are ignorant.

Buh bye now...

 

[FAcFriend]

If bridgeway bob is such a good communicator why doesnt the union hire him to communicate your message??

 

[Elevator 2]

If bridgeway bob is such a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good communicator why doesnt the union hire him to communicate your message??

And the drama continues.... welcome to the dollhouse.

 

[FamilyGuy]

1) I don't give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** what anyone at Bridgeway thinks of me or this pilot group....and therefore, I don't give **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** what you have to say on this board. You don't pay my bills, you aren't responsible for putting my kids through school, making my car payments and you sure as he..ll have no right to make a determination as to what a reasonable salary is for ME in mY profession.

BB makes a reported $1.2 million a year! And that doesn't include his gree flying on NJA aircraft whenever he wants. Why don't you go tell HIM what is reasonable for him to make!

2) Unless you are FULLY informed as to backgrounds of each and every pilot here, the background of this industry, the commonly used union busting tactics that BB and his minions are using, what it took to achieve the positions that we have in terms of training, experience and education as professional pilots, the job that we do every day to make this place run, and a DETAILED understanding of the history of these negotiations starting four years ago, then you have no place in commenting on what actions we take to achieve what we think is best for us and our families.

2) This same sort of nonsensical bickering has occurred time and time again in the history of contractual negotiations with people outside the group who are engaged in the fight, telling those doing the fighting what/when/why/where and how they are wrong wrong wrong about everything. This is a waste of time and energy for all involved. The management moles on here have no clue as to the uselessness of their efforts. Quite the contrary, they may actually be hurting their "cause" because of the ignorant posts they make.

3) If you are too nai've not to understand the propaganda/spin and outright lies told by the company in the course of these events, then I suggest that you read I WAS A UNION BUSTER.....you will find that everything being said to you and to the union by the company and "Bridgeway Bob" is right out of the tactics outlined in that book. The problem is management is too silly stupid to understand that by employing such tactics, they are simply unifying the group more and more. It was all a suprise at one point in history, but once you've seen the play run a few times, it looses it effectiveness and ends up costing you yards. Such tactics unified the pilot groups at other airlines and in some cases it cost the airlines dearly.

4) And while getting into the specific arguments on here is something I LOATHE to do, I will address one simply out of it's completely warped rationale as an illustration as to the ignorant level of posts on here by those who are trying to tell others what is best for them....

Family Guy said the following:

"$100,000 doesnt pay your bills?.....If I had that kind of money I could afford 2 homes, fund my 401k and IRA's for my wife and I, and put the kids in private school"......

Please explain to me Family Guy how you could do all of the above on $100K a year? I would be interested......

$100K a year translates into about 60K a year with taxes and 401K contributions. My check is about 60% of gross.....so, just for sake of argument, I'll chip in another 12K and make it 72K a year take home.....

Now, please explain to me how you are going to have two homes and put your kids in private school on 6k a month? Are we talking two single wides here? And by private school you mean kindergarten? The private school where I live is about $18k a year......what's yours? My kids go to public school......

Please outline a budget for me where you can do all of that on 6k a month in take home pay. Car payments? Food? Utilities? Clothes? Property taxes? Insurances? Medical expenses? Entertainment? Braces? Tuitions? Fee? Books? Travel? Vacation? Gas? Maintenance?

That's the problem with these discussions. They are ignorant.

Buh bye now...

If you dont think our opinions are important why do you pass out your educational materials to us at work?

If you dont think our opinions are important why do you start threads aimed at us entitled "NetJets Casino employees"?

I agree with you that these discussions are ignorant and unnecessary. Go back and read my previous posts. I've always said that these discussions have no place or purpose on a public board.

Everyone should let the appointed representatives of the union and the company negotiate an agreement behind closed doors. It should not be debated here.

 

[Some Dude]

Once again Family Guy has NO SOLUTIONS TO NJA PROBLEMS. Just blame the pilots. When you go out and get the training and experience that I have you can ask for 100,000. When you put your job on the line every day. When you get the job done safely and on time then you can ask for that kind of money. Yet you are still scared to talk about the facts. Or you just don't know the facts. So shut your pie hole. If you don't make that kind of money then that is your fault. Maybe put in for a VP job you sound perfect for it. Clueless and jealous.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Once again Family Guy has NO SOLUTIONS TO NJA PROBLEMS. Just blame the pilots. When you go out and get the training and experience that I have you can ask for 100,000. When you put your job on the line every day. When you get the job done safely and on time then you can ask for that kind of money. Yet you are still scared to talk about the facts. Or you just don't know the facts. So shut your pie hole. If you don't make that kind of money then that is your fault. Maybe put in for a VP job you sound perfect for it. Clueless and jealous.

I have no problem with you making $100k. You've earned it. I've chosen my path in life and I'm happy with it. I wish you guys could say the same.

I also agree that you deserve a raise. I've never disputed that.

My only concern is the way you are going about it. This scorched earth policy that you seem to be following is just going to create ill will between you, the company, the rest of us employees, and our fellow aviators in the 135 community. There has to be a better way.

 

[Elevator 2]

I have no problem with you making $100k. You've earned it. I've chosen my path in life and I'm happy with it. I wish you guys could say the same.

I also agree that you deserve a raise. I've never disputed that.

My only concern is the way you are going about it. This scorched earth policy that you seem to be following is just going to create ill will between you, the company, the rest of us employees, and our fellow aviators in the 135 community. There has to be a better way.

And the drama continues.... welcome to the dollhouse.