NetJets App - Question ... DOH

[Wankel7]

Anyways I had already sent off my application and realized that I forgot to list a part time job as a waiter.

I believe if I get an interview I will come in with a piece of paper with the job history printed on it.

I really do not think it is worth doing anything about it unless I show up for an interview.

Any other ideas?

Thanks!

 

[DO-82 driver]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Right now they are trying to get people who aren't here to get a quick type and blast off to some other company that will allow them to live closer to home.

The Domicile system isn't working the way management hoped it would.

I'm guessing that if you are willing to work here at one of the 5 Domiciles you'll get hired.

As a side note.....Several instructors at Flight Safety have told me that the average person going through the training program is not quite , Oh, how shall we say it....., of the same caliber as the trainees who went through the system several years ago. A number of the instructors are actually concerned that people aren't going to pass the type rating. But yet they are under pressure to get people throiugh the pipeline. I'm guessing that this is because of this stupid domicile thing.

Having flown with a number of new hires recently I can honestly say that I'm not that impressed. Take it for what its worth.

I personally sent 2 people back for some more IOE!!!!!

 

[RNObased]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Right now they are trying to get people who aren't here to get a quick type and blast off to some other company that will allow them to live closer to home.

The Domicile system isn't working the way management hoped it would.

I'm guessing that if you are willing to work here at one of the 5 Domiciles you'll get hired.

As a side note.....Several instructors at Flight Safety have told me that the average person going through the training program is not quite , Oh, how shall we say it....., of the same caliber as the trainees who went through the system several years ago. A number of the instructors are actually concerned that people aren't going to pass the type rating. But yet they are under pressure to get people throiugh the pipeline. I'm guessing that this is because of this stupid domicile thing.

Having flown with a number of new hires recently I can honestly say that I'm not that impressed. Take it for what its worth.

I personally sent 2 people back for some more IOE!!!!!

What fleet do you do IOE in??? I did it for years in a couple fleets.

The domicile thing is a failure, but will NJA admit that??? Doubtful.

 

[DO-82 driver]

I don't do IOE....I just suggested that the folks I flew with go back for a bit more training. They were sent out in future tours with IOE guys for a little brushing up. I'm not paid to instruct.

 

[tk855]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Right now they are trying to get people who aren't here to get a quick type and blast off to some other company that will allow them to live closer to home.

The Domicile system isn't working the way management hoped it would.

I'm guessing that if you are willing to work here at one of the 5 Domiciles you'll get hired.

As a side note.....Several instructors at Flight Safety have told me that the average person going through the training program is not quite , Oh, how shall we say it....., of the same caliber as the trainees who went through the system several years ago. A number of the instructors are actually concerned that people aren't going to pass the type rating. But yet they are under pressure to get people throiugh the pipeline. I'm guessing that this is because of this stupid domicile thing.

Having flown with a number of new hires recently I can honestly say that I'm not that impressed. Take it for what its worth.

I personally sent 2 people back for some more IOE!!!!!

Why are they getting signed off if this is the case? Our job at NJA is different than the type of flying most are used to, we all know that. Some people catch on quicker than others, I don't understand why they are allowed to move forward if they haven't caught on yet. If it is their flying skills, that is a whole other issue that needs to be cut off at the source. What exactly are you seeing?

 

[Archie Bunker]

As a side note.....Several instructors at Flight Safety have told me that the average person going through the training program is not quite , Oh, how shall we say it....., of the same caliber as the trainees who went through the system several years ago. A number of the instructors are actually concerned that people aren't going to pass the type rating. But yet they are under pressure to get people throiugh the pipeline. I'm guessing that this is because of this stupid domicile thing.

That's very interesting. How recent were these observations from the FSI instructors? I went through the X type course in CMH last June, and I didn't have any problems whatsoever. In fact, I'd put up anybody in my new-hire class against a seasoned NJA veteran in that type course. Actually, that's exactly what happened, because we were teamed up with Capt upgrades (mostly coming from the Ultra) for the course. Guess what? Out of that entire type class, the only guys to fail their sim check rides were 2 Capt upgrades (both guys had been at NJA for approx 5 years). The checkrides flown were exactly the same for new-hires or experienced Capt upgrades. Do you really think that the quality of new-hires has dropped that much in a few months time?

having flown with a number of new hires recently I can honestly say that I'm not that impressed. Take it for what its worth.

I personally sent 2 people back for some more IOE!!!!!

I can probably give you a little insight to this, and why you're not too impressed, with a little dose of my personal history at NJA. I was hired last May, went to X type school in June, sat for 3 months, company aircraft training in Sept, and have been sitting on my a$$ ever since, waiting for IOE. Now, I don't know how "normal" this is in the fractional world, but it is unheard of at any other of my past flying jobs. When I finally get the call to report for IOE, I'm guessing that I'll be just a bit rusty, and maybe a little behind the power curve (so to speak). I can study all the manuals I have, and stare at the cockpit poster for hours a day, but it doesn't take the place of actually flying the jet, and working on the line.

IMHO, the NetJets training department is to blame for this, and not the new-hire pilot. We're trained at FSI, and then sit around for months while our skills deteriorate on this new aircraft we just learned. Obviously, the NJA training dept wasn't set up to handle the number of new-hire pilots that have joined the ranks this year. Couple this with all the bypass guys upgrading, and you have IOE/LCA Capts that are working non-stop. Maybe training some more IOE/LCA Capts is a step in the right direction? Certainly, having a guy sit around for 6 months waiting for IOE, and then complaining about his performance isn't the right answer. But that's just my opinion....I could be wrong.

 

[DO-82 driver]

I am seeing:
Poor SOP's.
Attitudes that reflect questioning the way NJA does things as opposed to "their" former" carrier.
Not understanding what the Fractionals really entail.
People not realizing that owners can show up early which means we had better be ready when we can.
It seems that a few of the people I have flown with know how to pass IOE but once released to the road they feel they can revert back to doing things "their" way.

I'm not going to stand for it.....here are the SOP's...follow them like everyone else or get the heck out of here.

This is only a small handful of guys. But the problem seems to exist amongst former Captains from a certain East Coast Regional airline that is no longer in business.

Come on...coffee, paper, ice, clearance and common sense...its not that hard!!!!!

I have no problems working with someone who is willing to learn....but the attiude of "I'm done with IOE so I'll do what I want becasue NJA needs people" isn't going to fly with me.

 

[Archie Bunker]

I am seeing:
Poor SOP's.
Attitudes that reflect questioning the way NJA does things as opposed to "their" former" carrier.
Not understanding what the Fractionals really entail.
People not realizing that owners can show up early which means we had better be ready when we can.
It seems that a few of the people I have flown with know how to pass IOE but once released to the road they feel they can revert back to doing things "their" way.

I'm not going to stand for it.....here are the SOP's...follow them like everyone else or get the heck out of here.

This is only a small handful of guys. But the problem seems to exist amongst former Captains from a certain East Coast Regional airline that is no longer in business.

Come on...coffee, paper, ice, clearance and common sense...its not that hard!!!!!

I have no problems working with someone who is willing to learn....but the attiude of "I'm done with IOE so I'll do what I want becasue NJA needs people" isn't going to fly with me.

If that is the case, then I agree with you. It kind of sounds more like an attitude problem, than a flying problem. There is nothing more frustrating than flying with a guy that's constantly saying, "that's not how we did it at Brand X airlines." Here's hoping you have better luck with your crew in the future.

 

[jppt2000]

That's very interesting. How recent were these observations from the FSI instructors? I went through the X type course in CMH last June, and I didn't have any problems whatsoever. In fact, I'd put up anybody in my new-hire class against a seasoned NJA veteran in that type course. Actually, that's exactly what happened, because we were teamed up with Capt upgrades (mostly coming from the Ultra) for the course. Guess what? Out of that entire type class, the only guys to fail their sim check rides were 2 Capt upgrades (both guys had been at NJA for approx 5 years). The checkrides flown were exactly the same for new-hires or experienced Capt upgrades. Do you really think that the quality of new-hires has dropped that much in a few months time?



I can probably give you a little insight to this, and why you're not too impressed, with a little dose of my personal history at NJA. I was hired last May, went to X type school in June, sat for 3 months, company aircraft training in Sept, and have been sitting on my a$$ ever since, waiting for IOE. Now, I don't know how "normal" this is in the fractional world, but it is unheard of at any other of my past flying jobs. When I finally get the call to report for IOE, I'm guessing that I'll be just a bit rusty, and maybe a little behind the power curve (so to speak). I can study all the manuals I have, and stare at the cockpit poster for hours a day, but it doesn't take the place of actually flying the jet, and working on the line.

IMHO, the NetJets training department is to blame for this, and not the new-hire pilot. We're trained at FSI, and then sit around for months while our skills deteriorate on this new aircraft we just learned. Obviously, the NJA training dept wasn't set up to handle the number of new-hire pilots that have joined the ranks this year. Couple this with all the bypass guys upgrading, and you have IOE/LCA Capts that are working non-stop. Maybe training some more IOE/LCA Capts is a step in the right direction? Certainly, having a guy sit around for 6 months waiting for IOE, and then complaining about his performance isn't the right answer. But that's just my opinion....I could be wrong.

Archie:
I hope I don't offend you, but I agree with you.
I fly almost every tour now with with X new hires. Each one reports the same 3 month period at home after training. From what I hear and see, the training program is changing albeit glacially.
Every ex-airline pilot, and new hire pilot I've flown with is top notch and very professional.
IMHO, the only adjustment the airline pilots have to make is the switch in culture.
I would imagine the FSI instructors who made those alleged claims had ulterior motives.
IMHO, look for new hires next year to get through training in significantly shorter time.
I would guess this has been brought on by the huge influx of ex 121 pilots
demonstrating the ability to fly the aircraft straight off the sims.
Training, when I arrived at EJA seven years ago, was draconian at best.

 

[Archie Bunker]

Archie:
I hope I don't offend you, but I agree with you.
I fly almost every tour now with with X new hires. Each one reports the same 3 month period at home after training. From what I hear and see, the training program is changing albeit glacially.
Every ex-airline pilot, and new hire pilot I've flown with is top notch and very professional.
IMHO, the only adjustment the airline pilots have to make is the switch in culture.
I would imagine the FSI instructors who made those alleged claims had ulterior motives.
IMHO, look for new hires next year to get through training in significantly shorter time.
I would guess this has been brought on by the huge influx of ex 121 pilots
demonstrating the ability to fly the aircraft straight off the sims.
Training, when I arrived at EJA seven years ago, was draconian at best.

Jppt,

Thanks for posting your observations.

The only thing that I would add is that it hasn't been only 3 months since training. It's been 6 months since I completed the type rating course at FSI. I've logged a total of 2.2 hours in the X since I was hired last May. I'm starting to feel like "Milton" from the movie Office Space......I'm at home with my red Boston stapler, Blackberry, and new watch, along with collecting a NJA paycheck, but I don't think NetJets knows that I work for them. Hopefully the "Bobs" won't show up anytime soon and eliminate me.

I just hope that my IOE Capt is understanding when I ask him which jet on the ramp is the Citation X.

 

[Diesel]

Just a couple of things it is records that is holding up nj not training. Training is going through changes but in the end its the same old changes that everyone claims to make and nobody ever does. It doesn't matter how many past guys in charge of safety or training there are helping the company. Unless the company gets records and themselves behind it will never happen.

One thing that people tend to do is use the 3 months as an excuse. The company is still paying you to sit at home. So use that time to watch the company dvd, go over your sop's, look at the flight tranining manuals, go over your sop's.

You can prepare yourself while you wait. they are paying you to do it.

 

[gunfyter]

Amazing. Now we pay people to fly 2.2 hrs in six months... while I do 14/10.

WTF Why don't I get all that time off when I switch airplanes. If anybody gets time off it should be the Captains.

Fatigued in Seattle.​

 

[Archie Bunker]

Amazing. Now we pay people to fly 2.2 hrs in six months... while I do 14/10.

WTF Why don't I get all that time off when I switch airplanes. If anybody gets time off it should be the Captains.

Fatigued in Seattle.​

Trust me gunfyter, I'm as shocked as you are concerning my idle time.......I actually feel pretty guilty about it. When I tell my airline buddies that I haven't flown a trip yet, they are in utter disbelief, and can't believe that the company has let me sit and ferment for 6 months.

Guys like you are out there busting their a$$, and I get an extended paid vacation. I've pretty much given up trying to understand how NJA operates.

 

[DO-82 driver]

And despite this Company's inefficiencies....we are still making butt-loads of $$$$$$$

 

[notaNJApilot]

Archie you should call Records or Flight Training if you want to get off the couch. It's possible you were lost in the system. Ask them what the deal is.

 

[Archie Bunker]

And despite this Company's inefficiencies....we are still making butt-loads of $$$$$$$

I don't know how they do it. In addition to my groovy NJA watch, I just received my Santulli care package today with all the goodies (shirts, hats, et al). Since NJA likes to spend money like a drunken sailor in Thailand, maybe next year someone can suggest NetJets cars for all employees? You know, nothing too fancy.....maybe a Mercedes CLS?

 

[glasspilot]

I am seeing:
Poor SOP's.
Attitudes that reflect questioning the way NJA does things as opposed to "their" former" carrier.
Not understanding what the Fractionals really entail.
People not realizing that owners can show up early which means we had better be ready when we can.
It seems that a few of the people I have flown with know how to pass IOE but once released to the road they feel they can revert back to doing things "their" way.

I'm not going to stand for it.....here are the SOP's...follow them like everyone else or get the heck out of here.

This is only a small handful of guys. But the problem seems to exist amongst former Captains from a certain East Coast Regional airline that is no longer in business.

Come on...coffee, paper, ice, clearance and common sense...its not that hard!!!!!

I have no problems working with someone who is willing to learn....but the attitude of "I'm done with IOE so I'll do what I want because NJA needs people" isn't going to fly with me.

You are of course referring to Independence Air. First, Independence did not end it's life as a "East Coast Regional airline". We were a LCC on par with SouthWest and JetBlue with the one exception that we went out of business. Anyway, the point of my point is to point out that the folks that rode Independence Air to the end were ALL former Captains in at the least a CRJ and many were left seat of the Airbus. Regardless of type it is a very tough pill to swallow going from the cats meow, making the big decisions to throwing bags in a little jet for some rich dude. I know that's the job and so do the former Indy guys doing it at NetJets. I'm just saying it's hard and cut the guy a little slack. It takes awhile to become adjusted to a new reality but I'm sure most, if not all, will do it well.

Independence Air was something that we all embraced and supported to the end. To watch our dreams evaporate in front of us and then be confronted with the current job market warrants just a little empathy. I'm not suggesting a free pass, just a little understanding.

Fly safe.

 

[Archie Bunker]

Archie you should call Records or Flight Training if you want to get off the couch. It's possible you were lost in the system. Ask them what the deal is.

Lost in Space.........actually I prefer the "Milton" from Office Space comparison.

When I completed Company Aircraft Training in Sept, the IP completed all the paperwork, and faxed copies of all my "stuff" to aircrew training/records. I thought everything was good to go. A day or two later, I received a crackberry message that said the faxed copy of my ATP certificate was illegible, and would I please resend. No problem....I faxed another copy, and I scanned and emailed another copy to aircrew training/records just to be sure. Again, I thought everything was good to go. Tick, tock, tick, tock.................about a month and a half later, I get another crackberry message that says my ATP certificate is not legible, and please resend again. What the fu*k??? Ok, this time I blow it up, re-fax it, and call to make sure they have a legible copy. Great, done......tick, tock, tick, tock......Another couple of weeks go by, and then I get a crackberry message that says I am now released to IOE. Hurrah!!! Tick, tock, tick, tock.......that was at the beginning of the month. Still sitting here. Maybe they're having a hard time getting an IOE Capt during my 7 days on?? Anyone, anyone, Bueller? Everytime I've called crew training or scheduling in the past, I've always get the same answer.....we should get to you by next month at the latest......give us a call then. Which brings us to the present........I'm thinking of picking up a second job stacking lightbulbs at Home Depot while I wait. What do you think?

 

[notaNJApilot]

If you were released to IOE and haven't been paired with an IOE Capt then it may be a records issue. You probably aren't showing IOE in the system. Either that or you are shown as IOE and X IOE Captains are hard to come by.

I'd be bored out of my mind if I were in your shoes. 6 months of rot sounds like a grievance waiting to be filed.

 

[SAEflyer]

Having flown with a number of new hires recently I can honestly say that I'm not that impressed. Take it for what its worth.

I personally sent 2 people back for some more IOE!!!!![/quote]

I've only been here a year, but i've flown with 1 or 2 captains that I wish i could send back to IOE...I know my class was very well qualified and had tons of experience, I can't speak for the last few months, but i'm sure your experience was a fluke based on what i've heard and seen.