Net Jets Savannah

[CatYaaak]

You haven't been sitting around for 15 years listening to me, I haven't been doing it that long. The one thing you claim remained constant over the years is about to change, and you seem to be upset about it. Not sure if it is a generalization on your part or not, but I haven't claimed to be "labor" one day and a "corporate pilot" the next. Statements like that make you a stooge. I don't run around stereotyping corporate pilots, but you seem to derive some sort of personal satifaction from it when it comes to NJA pilots. History will soon be made at NJA through negotiations regardless of what you think or say. What will your thoughts be when you see 400 QS airplanes parked across the country by NJA union pilots? I'm sure you will think something negative to say.

I'm not sure why you think going after NJI pilots (what the discussion was about) qualifies as making the change you seem so sure will occur...namely getting paid decent wages. You're just dragging down another group.

Far from being upset if you finally do something about your wages....it's what the rest of us were trying to point out in the first place. What, you want some kind of standing ovation because you finally woke up and decide to not remain low-wage enablers? So far, as usual, it's all talk...talk that's been heard before.

I'll certainly make one generalization about NJA pilots; You ALL willingly went to work for much less than your skills and training should command. Whether you did it out of ignorance, desperation, or simply becuase you believed your stint there would be brief, the fact that you all did means that generalization is absolutely correct.

So go make your...um..history...if by "history" you mean finally getting yourself of the hole you jumped in. Park airplanes if you must, I really wouldn't care, but it would probably be a positive to corporate aviation anyway if you did, since that would mean even more owners would bail and buy their own aircraft outright. Your owners aren't discount ticket-seeking airline pax...they have other options and can afford to take them when you become a big enough hassle to deal with.

 

[CatYaaak]

They are already spun off. The point is to bring them back.


Let’s try another example for you corporate guys:

Company A has a flight department at airport A. The company decides to purchase a few more airplanes, add a new group of pilots, but still flying the same execs, using the same flight planning, and mutual office and maintenance space. But, they have decided to pay the new guys a little more than the guys that have been with the company many, many years longer.


Want better examples?

How about Bank of America and Wachovia?

When these banks began merging (not with each other), did they continue to operate separate flight departments, carrying the same (new) group of people? NO. They combined their operations.

All of you are hypocrites to tell us that you would not be a little miffed if your company started a new operation that paralleled your own, and performing the same function that you do, and then paid the “new hires” more than your veteran pilots. Then you turn around and blame the original pilots for trying to streamline the organization.

Plenty of corporations operate seperate departments after aquisitions if it suits their needs. And if you're suggesting corporate-like "streamlining" is the goal with NJI, then basically you're just saying the NJI pilots should be laid-off, because that's what usually happens in the corporate world when streamlining takes effect.

I don't know any corporate pilots that get miffed if they carry an exec from another company under the auspices of an interchange agreement, knowing they might be getting paid less than the other company's pilots, especially if they aren't even flying the same type of aircraft.

If you're miffed at that, then you must be simply furious if you're flying the execs from a corporation who's purchased a share in NJA to supplement their own flight department's needs. I mean, that company's own corporate pilots are probably making 2 to 3 times your salary for carrying the same people.

But that's all beside the point. The real question is, when EJI was being formed, how many EJA pilots met the qualifications regarding time in type that Gulfstream wanted for crewing their aircraft as part of the deal? Apparently, from few to none, because I have no doubt that if NJA management could have, they would have, since the same people who were jumping at 20K (then) year Citation jobs would probably have jumped at 35K/year for sitting in a Gulfstream.

 

[gunfyter]

This is why it's so muddied. The relationship you have with your employer, NJA, is governed by the Railway Labor Act because you unionized and entered into collective bargaining with NJA for your services. You didn't enter into any agreement with the Owners of the aircraft. It's the owners who have the interchange agreement between each other....you aren't part of that equation.

Not exactly. The RLA is not meant to apply to part 91 flying... but for Common Carriage which you point out is not what we do. If you are right we should be released from RLA oversight.

 

[NJA Capt]

Yaaak, you’re missing the obvious again, and I’m not wasting any more time trying to explain it to you. You are grossly misinformed and are not willing to see the obvious. I guess you will just have to wait and see what the Judge says.

 

[Grizz]

NJA,

He won't show up after that. He might have to admit he was wrong.

 

[Publishers]

I'd swear that this conversation has been had and was as banal the second time as the first.

NJI was not started to be against the Netjets union, that was demanded by Gulfstream as a condition of the deal at the time.

If Netjets was a single entity, that is one thing, but, that is not the case unless things have changed since before.

 

[Grizz]

It's changed. No go run along and talk in some other forum about something you know about.

 

[Publishers]

Your right Grizz, that is exactly what I told the customer who was in here today seeing about changing his situation to our management and charter certificate.

I don't know anything about your problems with Netjets or EJM and the way they handle crews but welcome here.

 

[gunfyter]

See its working out well for everybody...

 

[CatYaaak]

Hear ye! Hear ye!

Those who've been in business aviation for decades and watched/were involved in the advent and growth of fractionals EJA/NetJets in particular, worked for and run flight departments corporate, management, and charter, written interchange agreements, dealt with the tax code and aviation law, consulted corporations on fractional ownership as disinterested parties, written the checks, have been union members in the past, and above all, have avoided like the plague any temptation to acede to the working conditions found at a place like EJA/NJA....know nothing, and are ignorant to the situation!

On the other hand, pilots who recently got into business aviation by going to work for the lowest-paying outfit around, and still stick around.....know everything, even to the point of aquiring an historical re-perspective that those who were actually around at the time didn't even know existed!

You guys crack me up, and hey, isn't it high time you did something about those naughty NetJets Europe pilots too? In addition to the "seamlessness" factor, and unlike NJI, they even fly the same types of aircraft you guys do....AND they get paid more than you. Lots more. I'm telling you, I'd be miffed!

Go get 'em tigers!