Net Jets QOL

[1-tacan-rule]

I say again, Over.....

Live4,

Please answer my question, because unless I've missed something, your possible answer must be one that I've offered:

If your sked is as you say:

a) you are a liar, and your are only telling this lie to trash the company (fine, just admit it)

b) you are a "yes" man who doesn't mind being run ragged because at the end of the day, you got the job done (again, fine, but please be man enough to admit it)

c) you are an unsafe pilot who doesn't know his limits. In this case, you are not doing your company or the owners any favors. Please take my advice (he says arogantly) and know when to say when. No one (the customers or your CPs) wants to die because you don't know when to say "enough."

Remember, you're not saving lives, or putting steel on target to eradicate Al Quida.....you're just moving a few butts from point A to point B.

 

[Live4flyng]

a) NO

b) NO

c) NO

Remember, you're not saving lives, or putting steel on target to eradicate Al Quida.....you're just moving a few butts from point A to point B.

I'll try to remember this next time I am flying, thanks confucius.

 

[1-tacan-rule]

You probably meant "Confucious" but I got the point.

 

[Live4flyng]

You probably meant "Confucious" but I got the point.

No, I meant Confucius.....As in the Chinese philosopher and teacher that types little pieces of paper for fortune cookies. I'm not a very good speller, so it shouldn't be hard to find other mistakes in my grammar.

 

[been-there]

QOL really sucks at NetJets. Hopefully after 91K gets implemented it will get better. You NEVER know when your show time is. They like calling at all times of the night to get you out to the airport.


For Gulfstream200, It's $27,000 not $24,000. You can actually buy super unleaded instead of regular.

 

[realityman]

Sorry, but have to put my .02 worth in on this one.


Live4, I've been at NJA for 8 years now, and never had a tour like the one you've described. I agree that it is POSSIBLE, and that there are, no doubt, more than a few crews flying tours like that, but is it a TYPICAL tour at NJA? I don't think so. I'm on the Citation X, one of the busiest fleets we have. Flew my ever-loving butt off over the week of New Year's!!! And I still didn't have a tour like you described. I guess that still leaves the question that if they tried to assign you a tour like that, why wouldn't you call in fatigued at some point? It's a fair question.

BeenThere, I agree that there's PLENTY of room for improvement at NJA (even not including salary which has pretty much been beaten to death here at FlightInfo), but in what ways is the QOL so bad? The days can be long, but are never more than 14 hours (assuming you stand up to the company and shut it down at that point). We stay in very nice places most of the time (except when the best hotels truly aren't available, which is rare). We keep our hotel points and airline miles. Crew food is plentiful and of good quality (never heard anyone ever complain of losing weight after starting work with us!). We are REQUIRED to have 10 hours of rest, and if you find your rest being shorted due to late hotel vans, poor check-in procedures, noisy hotel guests, whatever, then you have the option of telling (not asking) the company to give you additional rest. You cannot be extended on the 7/7 schedule, can only be extended once a month for one day on the 17-day schedule, and can generally count on being home after 7 days max on the flex schedule (not to mention having 3 schedules to choose from!). NJA has never failed to get me home mid-tour if a serious problem has developed back at home. While scheduling and owner services does from time to time try to second-guess my decisions, I've never had a program manager do that to me (and that's where it really counts!). Our minimums for getting in and out of the tricky airports tend to be a good deal higher than most other operators (including the airlines). I've NEVER had the company call me on one of my days off and ask me to come to work (unlike the last outfit I flew for). They've never questioned me when I've called in sick, or failed to send me home mid-tour if I call in sick while working. Heck, they don't even ask what's wrong with me. Just call back when you feel better!

Okay, I'm sure you could print a list equally long (if not longer) of areas where Netjets tries to hose you. I believe I already stated that there's still PLENTY of room for improvement, but it's really not a bad place to work (notice I'm still not bringing salary into it). After JB and SWA, I'd like to hear about any other companies (aviation) that treat you as well as NJA does. And before the accusations start, I voted a big fat NO on the contract we were offered, and a huge YES for SU. I donate money to them, and will be ready and willing to do what it takes to continue improving things at Netjets for the pilots. I just thought someone should shed some light on the GOOD things over there for a change!

Sometimes you have to stop and look at what you have, instead of just at what you don't have!

 

[Heavy Set]

Sorry, but have to put my .02 worth in on this one.


Live4, I've been at NJA for 8 years now, and never had a tour like theone you've described. I agree that it is POSSIBLE, and that there are,no doubt, more than a few crews flying tours like that, but is it aTYPICAL tour at NJA? I don't think so. I'm on the Citation X, one ofthe busiest fleets we have. Flew my ever-loving butt off over the weekof New Year's!!! And I still didn't have a tour like you described. Iguess that still leaves the question that if they tried to assign you atour like that, why wouldn't you call in fatigued at some point? It's afair question.

BeenThere, I agree that there's PLENTY of room for improvement at NJA(even not including salary which has pretty much been beaten to deathhere at FlightInfo), but in what ways is the QOL so bad? The days canbe long, but are never more than 14 hours (assuming you stand up to thecompany and shut it down at that point). We stay in very nice placesmost of the time (except when the best hotels truly aren't available,which is rare). We keep our hotel points and airline miles. Crew foodis plentiful and of good quality (never heard anyone ever complain oflosing weight after starting work with us!). We are REQUIRED to have 10hours of rest, and if you find your rest being shorted due to latehotel vans, poor check-in procedures, noisy hotel guests, whatever,then you have the option of telling (not asking) the company to giveyou additional rest. You cannot be extended on the 7/7 schedule, canonly be extended once a month for one day on the 17-day schedule, andcan generally count on being home after 7 days max on the flex schedule(not to mention having 3 schedules to choose from!). NJA has neverfailed to get me home mid-tour if a serious problem has developed backat home. While scheduling and owner services does from time to time tryto second-guess my decisions, I've never had a program manager do thatto me (and that's where it really counts!). Our minimums for getting inand out of the tricky airports tend to be a good deal higher than mostother operators (including the airlines). I've NEVER had the companycall me on one of my days off and ask me to come to work (unlike thelast outfit I flew for). They've never questioned me when I've calledin sick, or failed to send me home mid-tour if I call in sick whileworking. Heck, they don't even ask what's wrong with me. Just call backwhen you feel better!

Okay, I'm sure you could print a list equally long (if not longer) ofareas where Netjets tries to hose you. I believe I already stated thatthere's still PLENTY of room for improvement, but it's really not a badplace to work (notice I'm still not bringing salary into it). After JBand SWA, I'd like to hear about any other companies (aviation) thattreat you as well as NJA does. And before the accusations start, Ivoted a big fat NO on the contract we were offered, and a huge YES forSU. I donate money to them, and will be ready and willing to do what ittakes to continue improving things at Netjets for the pilots. I justthought someone should shed some light on the GOOD things over therefor a change!

Sometimes you have to stop and look at what you have, instead of just at what you don't have!

Great post. I have a number of friends at NJA who agree thatwhile not perfect (especially from a pay standpoint), many aspects ofthe job are enjoyable. Not one of my friends there has anyintention on leaving (which says a lot) - unless the pay situation getsworse... Hopefully a new contract will take care of things.

 

[Live4flyng]

I guess that still leaves the question that if they tried to assign you a tour like that, why wouldn't you call in fatigued at some point? It's a fair question.

I already answered it, please refer to post #7 where I clearly said "I do" call in tired. Scheduling will assign days like that, it is up to the crew to put the breaks on.

Our minimums for getting in and out of the tricky airports tend to be a good deal higher than most other operators (including the airlines)

Not sure if I agree with this statement though. How are our minimums a good deal higher than the airlines for getting into "the tricky airports"? With the exception of night operations at mountain airports, our minimums are part 91 or charted minimums for mountain airports unless we are operating 135. Look up Aspen on our mountain chart and you will see it says refer to the chart. Getting out usually depends on aircraft performance and wx.

 

[realityman]

Live4,

Yeah, I guess you're right about the 135 stuff. I was thinking more along the lines of our published mountain ops. But you're forgetting one important factor- crew comfort level. It doesn't matter what any chart says, if I'm not comfortable with it, the flight isn't happening. Try that excuse at an airline or your typical charter outfit! For the most part (but not always), Netjets doesn't push it. How many times have you heard our pax complaining that we're not leaving while watching other private jets and the airlines takeoff? I know it's happened to me many times.

And yes, you did say you will call in fatigued. My bad. However, it was your description of the "typical" tour at NJA that I took exception to. I've been in the Ultra fleet, Citation VII fleet, and a long time in the Citation X fleet and I have yet to get a whole tour like what you described. Yes, I know the company will try to push that schedule on A FEW crews here and there, but I stand by what I said in that it's not a "typical" NJA tour. And I don't know any crew that would actually fly that schedule. They'd be calling in fatigued and getting extra rest.

And for everyone else reading this thread, I do not claim to speak for anyone but myself. If we have any pilots who Live4's description is a "typical" tour, then I can understand some of the pure vitriol out there amongst some of our pilots. My apologies to anyone who may have construed my remarks as doubting that those tours happen.

 

[TurboJetCpt]

Thanks again for the info. Realistic or not I at least have an idea of at least one pilots view and opinion. I appreciate the facts and no sugar coating. Overall sounds like morale is good at Net Jets. Thanks again ....Keep the info coming...good stuff here.

MORALE IS NOT GOOD. WHERE DID YOU GET THIS FROM ??? Now if you ask one of the 300 YES voters on the last TA, they will tell you that they are in ABSOLUTE HEAVEN !!! LOSERS !!!

 

[1-tacan-rule]

I can add RealityMan...

...to my list of NJ pilots I have known or met who claim the same experience with your company.

Live4: You may indeed have experienced a schedule which is not the norm at your company. I do (as a colleague, and soon, possible CP of yours) feel for that situation. My question to you is: Do you have apps out? What will it take to leave NJ and go elsewhere (specifically, which companies would you leave for?). Or, is it rough at NJ but at least you know the beast?

 

[Live4flyng]

...to my list of NJ pilots I have known or met who claim the same experience with your company.

Live4: You may indeed have experienced a schedule which is not the norm at your company. I do (as a colleague, and soon, possible CP of yours) feel for that situation. My question to you is: Do you have apps out? What will it take to leave NJ and go elsewhere (specifically, which companies would you leave for?). Or, is it rough at NJ but at least you know the beast?

You have alot to learn about NJA my friend. First of all, I doubt you will be my Chief Pilot. I am pleased to hear you are safety conscious, it's very important in this business.

Back to my original post, I used the words "may" and "plan". They guy was asking for a comparison between the airlines flying 8 hours and getting our butts kicked. I told him we look at it more from a leg standpoint and duty hours, not flight hours. This is the last time I am going to post this, so read carefully. If you work the 7/7 schedule, you have a contractual obligation to be available for duty starting at 0001 on your first day until 2400 on your last day 14 hours of duty with 10 hours off. If you plan on anything else such as showing at 1000 on your first day, getting a couple of standby days on the road and returning home by 1500 on your last day you will be very disappointed when it doesn't happen. Can the company schedule you to work a 14 hour duty day? ANSWER IS YES! Can they make you show up at the FBO 10 hours after you are shutdown? ANSWER IS YES! Do they schedule 14/10s? ANSWER IS YES! Can you call in fatigued? ANSWER IS YES! Can you call in tired everyday? That is up to you. Are you going to work 14/10 every single day? Probably not. Will you work 12-14 hour days? Probably so. Should you be prepared for 14 hour duty days? Our contract says you do. Unless you are too tired.

As far as having Apps out, NO. This is my last flying job, I will do something else and let this industry consume itself. Have you ever heard of the saying "The buck stops here"? That is exactly how I feel. Aviation is screwed up and I am not running off to greener pastures when the going gets tough. I plan on standing and fighting. I am willing to strike and lose my job if necessary for us to get what is fair. I am all done chasing the pot of gold to find out it's not there thanks to incompetent and corrupt management.

 

[yankee]

Thanks for the info. Good to hear some positives for a change.

What other types of schedules are out there besides the 7 and 7 at netjets.

any other typical day kind of stories?

Thanks again everyone.

 

[Diesel]

Typical day all week has been. 8am show 930 go. Florida to TEB back to florida.

We did that all week. 7.5hrs of flying 12hrs of duty.

Missed the snow though.

Airlining home tomorrow.

 

[Fracster]

Nutjets also has the 17 day schedule and the flex schedule.

The 17 day means you work 17 days a month total. Usually 5 or 6 days on and 4 or 5 days off with 6 days on being the maximum. A lot of times I get 4 on/ 3 off which I like. Some guys hate it because they would rather be gone longer and be home longer. This schedule comes out 15 days prior to the end of the month and this is the schedule most people are on. Only the flex and the 7/7 are bid. You are automaticaly assigned the 17 day.

The flex mean you can work up 19 or 21 days but you dont know what days in advance. You call in each afternoon for the next day so you are basically "on a pager". You make and extra 10 grand on this schedule and it cannot be asigned to you.

It all boils down to preference. I would prefer an airline schedule rather than what we have so for me this place sucks. Some guys love the 7/7 so for them it is perfect. (schedule wise only)

Before you make any descisions make sure you know what you are getting into.