Negotiations & The Cost of "Heck No!"

[FlyDeltasJets]

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5. What will your MEC do to prevent, minimize, or mitigate potential furloughs?

5. I don't think that will be a problem. The reason I say that is that is our major complaint of the Delta pilots. They would rather sacrifice furloughs than give money back. I'm not presenting that as fact, however it is the common feeling at CMR and I think the MEC will go to large measure to prevent that from happening. Then again I may be wrong.

Bvt,

Please check the thread entitled "identity."

And for the record, I heard Fred Reid himself say that "if we only need X amount of pilots, that's all we will keep, regardless of what they are paid." That is the president of Delta, saying this at a roadshow in response to a question from a junior pilot regarding cutting pay to minimize furloughs. Allegations like yours have been repeated so often on this board they are now considered fact. I am glad that my MEC is doing everything they can to keep the bar where it should be, and hope yours does the same. I don't believe for a second that you giving concessions would benefit any of us, and I don't believe for a second that my MEC meant cmr or asa when they asked that all stakeholders share the sacrifice. I think they meant mgt, aircraft owners, vendors, etc. It makes for good drama accusing us of trying to lower your pay, but I don't believe it is true. I intend to call my rep today and find out for sure. Perhaps others should try to get their facts straight too before they post.

And I accept your apology about accusing me of lying about my identity. I certainly have no reason to do so to a bunch of faceless screennames on a message board. My words here are the same as they are on the ALPA board where I have to sign my name.

 

[Pez D. Spencer]

Originally posted by bvt1151

1. How will their response impact you and your career?

1. Nobody in management is willing to say, or perhaps they don't know because all the real decisions come from Atlanta mgmt has approached us with nothing to offer but "good faith" (whatever that is) that concessions will bring us growth. When a negotiating team approaches the table with nothing to offer, it usually means there will be negative consequences if no agreement is reached.

If they (mgmt) come to you with nothing to offer - no "golden bridge" - then they must want you to walk away. That doesn't make sense. Nor does it make sound economic sense to sacrifice the income potential of CMR in a lean, albeit improving, economy (with furloughs of pilots they need, deferring or parking jets that make a profit). Business is run by shareholders and profits, and ultimitely determined by market demand. It appears that CMR satifies both - I don't think they're making money hand over fist, but I do think they are turning a profit.

Any ideas as to what the incentives are or will be? Not the vague promises, but the ink they're willing to put on paper?

 

[surplus1]

If they (mgmt) come to you with nothing to offer - no "golden bridge" - then they must want you to walk away. That doesn't make sense.

I can understand why you say that. If you were a Comair pilot, you would understand that management has done a lot of things that don't "make sense" before. It's not about making sense. It's not even about money (what we could give is actually negligible even if we gave them all that they are asking), it's about power.

We had, as everyone knows, and 89-day strike. It occured because Delta management wanted it to happen. They forced the strike. They also forced it to last for the time that it did. The offer that we finally accepted could easily have been made, before there was any strike and before it lasted three months. Instead, the Company (not Comair but Delta) conciously decided to p!ss away $680 million dollars (their numbers) of the shareholders money on a power trip. The people that made those decisions are still the CEO and President of Delta Air Lines. They may claim it was "comair management" if they want to, but everyone knows who called the shots after Delta bought Comair. Comair management would never have risked destroying Comair like that, it was their bread and butter. Delta management on the other hand, couldn't care less. Maybe it doesn't make "sense" to folks like you and me, but they have done it before and if they feel like doing it again, they will. It's not their money. They get the same pay, the same bonuses and the same cush protected retirement, regardless.

If you think they would not, then you just don't understand the mentality of the corporate power structure. It is easy to risk somebody else's money (shareholders) especially when you are not required to explain your actions and you suffer no penalty. It is stupidity, it is ego and union busting and it is not unique to Delta.

Just look at the millions the CEO of FedX spent in an effort to prevent the union. It was way, way, more that any union contract ever cost him. I didn't work, and it didn't "make sense", but he did it anyway. Look at what Lorenzo did. He personally made millions, but he threw away the shareholders money, destroyed one airline (and the lives of thousands of employees), nearly destroyed another, all to inflate his already inflated ego in an attempt to destroy the union and make himself richer at the expense of others. The corporate world is full of people that do this sort of thing all the time.

Does that mean that I think the Comair pilots should give in to management's unreasonable demands? Not no, but he!! NO. However, when we do not give in, we can expect management to retaliate and attempt to punish us, no matter how much more money it costs them to do that, than what "makes sense".

We must be prepared for the onslaught and we must also stand our ground. I have faith that we will do both.

 

[comrcap]

Comair mgmt offers are empty by virtue of the fact....they don't control what we fly. I'll even wager that the decision on the DO jets has already been made. We're getting them. Comair Mgmt now has to "Make it work". I say we delay, delay, delay....And if they threaten to give them to someone else....To quote Ron Allen: "So be it!".
In response to the questions:
1. Maria
2. Nothing
3. Turnstyle followed by missing the bus...I really want to be on the bus when they hit a post because they are constantly talking on the radio! Maybe I'll get a retirement at Comair that way!

Seriously, I think that we should offer DOH to ASA or ACA pilots if it comes to that. We can't whine about the DALPA response to the PID and do anything less ourselves.
Pay cuts? I didn't dig Delta's hole in the ground and I'm certainly not going to give one red cent to bail out DALPA. Underfunded pension, high pay rates, work rules. What work rules! Overrides for this and that. You guys don't know what it's like to work for a living. And when it comes to the junior pilots? DALPA will hang them out to dry. Just you watch.......