Negotiations in public

[eaglesview]

UAL needs to use it greater numbers and set the tone. Then CAL can decide what they want to do.

I'm not even sure what you mean by that. Set the tone for who, the company or the CO pilots? I hope you don't mean the latter.

 

[General Lee]

I'm curious, AND THIS ISN'T FLAME, but you are a SWA guy and I see a lot of you throwing stones about DAL's scope (or lack of), yet SWAPA was going to allow SWA to expand into Mexico and Canada with 737's flown by non SWA pilots. No ALPA carrier would ever do that. What's your take on that.
Personally I think it shows that every airline has it's issues, but what's with the stone throwing?

Dan,

SWA pilots are often very defensive, primarily because they can't stand it when other pilots don't exactly want what they have. Not everyone wants to fly small narrowbody aircraft forever, with multiple leg days to boot. Sure, the pay and some benefits are fantastic, but we all know that it can be taken away. Most of these Southwest guys on FI are a very cocky bunch, who treat the Airtran guys on here like 2nd class citizens, which will never promote unity. Sure, SLI issues are sensitive (like during DL/NWA), but the way some of these guys put down the Airtran bunch is just terrible. Yet, they don't seem to care. Their savior, Chase, tries to come in here from time to time and put out fires, but mostly it is the SWA bunch trying to manage everyone elses expectations, especially the Airtran pilots. Most pilots have company pride, but these particular guys take it to the next level, and make sure everyone else knows it, that they think they are the top, even while flying a junky 737-300 in EL Paso. (which may be the top of the heap, in ELP) They put on the Fonzi jacket, and they magically turn into Fonzi. Ehhhhhhhhhh.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[densoo]

ALPA: The Pilots Union



*****
June 27, 2011
*****

Joint statement to our pilots from Capt. Jay Pierce, CAL MEC Chairman and Capt. Wendy Morse, UAL Master Chairman:

“By now, many of you have probably heard about or visited management’s website (www.unitednegotiations.com) that outlines their views on negotiations for the joint collective bargaining agreement (JCBA). Included on the site is a summary of their comprehensive proposal given to us last October. This bullet-point summary omits significant negative details and does not accurately portray negotiations to this point. It is obviously designed for propaganda purposes. More important is the fact that the proposal, when presented to the JNC on Oct. 27, did not meet the goals of the combined pilot group and has not matured to that point since.

It should also be noted that by placing company proposals on this public website, management has elected to blatantly ignore the advice provided during the first joint meeting held with the NMB. At that meeting, we were advised by all that attempting to negotiate this deal in public, in the crew rooms or over the Internet would be counterproductive and frowned upon. Both sides agreed to avoid doing so. We are offended by management’s complete disregard for the negotiating process and can only view this as yet more proof that management is not ready to take these negotiations seriously. We urge them to reconsider and honor their stated commitments to us to devote the time and resources necessary to reach agreement, and their stated commitments to the NMB to honor the process.”

Now, to go into more detail for the Continental pilots, if you have not taken the time to review the site and specifically management’s “comprehensive economic proposal for an industry-leading agreement,” I urge you to do so. I think it important that you understand what our management considers “fair.” Please remember that this proposal is nothing new – it is simply repackaged propaganda published in an attempt to mislead those pilots who are not intimately familiar with our current contract. I will also reiterate that your union leaders, at both the CAL and UAL MECs, are in strong agreement that this proposal lacks the improvements that are necessary for our cornerstone areas.

When management published this website, I knew it was going to drive a lot of questions about why we have not released our opening position. We have heeded the advice to avoid negotiating in public. We have kept our end of the bargain, but management has chosen not to. Considering the years of experience we have with their inability to keep their contractual word, it should come as no surprise that they fail to keep unwritten agreements as well. I do not know how the NMB or our mediator will react to this, but I do know that he will be made aware of their direct disregard of the NMB’s specific request. We recognize this action as management’s ploy to misdirect efforts at the table and generate enough distraction to cause delay. We are fully prepared to continue negotiations under the supervision of the mediator this week and will continue to hold up our responsibilities.

Getting back to management’s proposal summary, I could write volumes about its deficiencies. Remember, we have been aware of where they want this contract to be for months. Hence our continued communications stating that management has not shown any inclination or motivation towards getting the deal done. Instead of going into finite detail, it might be best for you to draw your own conclusions. I will stick with simply saying that their proposal is designed to produce a self-funding contract. In the long run, when viewed in total, this proposal is a concession in each of the cornerstone areas established by both pilot groups. In scope they are suggesting that we allow the outsourcing of up to 250 94-seat jets. Obviously, that would be a major concession to CAL pilots. In compensation, while touting Delta plus a dollar, they somehow forget that Delta’s first year wages are significantly more than the 35 bucks an hour they propose. If we were to accept the wage tables they propose, some of our pilots would actually take a pay cut. Let’s not forget that DAL pilots have medical insurance from day one. In the vacation section, they are suggesting that pay for a day of vacation should be less than we have now and far less than we had in Contract ‘97. They also want to reduce the number of days of vacation accrual per year for some of us as well. As far as the Delta plus a dollar contract idea (which in and of itself is totally unacceptable), management also conveniently left out any mention of equity. This was valued at approximately $500M for the combined group. They also fail to mention retro pay at all – probably just an oversight on their part (sarcasm intended).

In the work rule area, the proposal maintains all the draconian day-of-operation provisions and reserve rules of the CAL contract, while gaining little or nothing in hours of service, staffing or line awards. As we go through this summer woefully understaffed, please remember that this is exactly how they envision every summer for the rest of your careers. Finally in the R&I area, they think that CAL pilots should be happy to eventually ramp up to the same defined-contribution (DC) level that UAL pilots enjoy today and that new hires would enjoy immediately. I will say it again—in all four cornerstone areas we have identified for improvement – Scope, Wages, Work Rules and R&I – management has proposed minor changes in certain provisions, to be paid for first by concessions in other areas and secondly by a complete gutting of our scope section.

Please do not take my word for it. I urge each of you to review this proposal carefully. I then challenge you to do one of two things. If, after reading their proposal you want us to accept it, please simply send me an e-mail saying so ([email protected]). If, on the other hand, you are as disgusted as I am, please print a copy, write the word “NO” in bold letters on it and either look your CP or ACP in the eye and hand it to him, or put it on their office door step. I promise that next week, I will report to you how many e-mails I received from pilots wanting to accept management’s deal.

I believe that management’s choice to start negotiating directly with the pilots now helps explain why we don’t have a contract to present to the pilots. It is fairly common for managements to believe that if only the pilot group would see their perspective, they would rise up and force the “radical” union leadership to back down. As is the case more often than not, I believe time will prove them wrong.

As we enter the busy summer season and the particularly busy Fourth of July weekend, please continue to Fly Safe.

One Union, One Voice

Capt. Jay Pierce
CAL MEC Chairman

 

[Jetjockey]

You would think after all these years management would learn a few new plays to put into their union-busting play book. I'd like to thank management for posting their woefully inadequate position they maintain. This will do more for pilot unity than any ALPA drive ever could of done.

Not only no, a huge HELL NO!

 

[densoo]

If, on the other hand, you are as disgusted as I am, please print a copy, write the word “NO” in bold letters on it and either look your CP or ACP in the eye and hand it to him, or put it on their office door step.

Sounds good to me.

 

[list2002]

"We have kept our end of the bargain, but management has chosen not to." ... and so... "We are offended... "

Can't wait to vote NO 15 years from now.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

I'm not even sure what you mean by that. Set the tone for who, the company or the CO pilots? I hope you don't mean the latter.

Oil is down. The companies have technically merged. The economy has not cratered yet. Today's world is anything but stable.

UAL ALPA and CAL ALPA are stonewalling without any concern about a timeline. In more stable times stonewalling might be the way to go. But when the two companies are under draconian concessionary contracts and years have passed it is time to sign something short term and go for more as soon as it is signed.

Signing a section by section improvement is also an option the unions are not pursuing.

The unions are also not putting any pressure on the situation. How is the sick call count? How is the on time? What is the media reporting about the pilots issues? What is the media reporting about customer service because of labor issues? None of this is happening.

UAL ALPA needs to break out and tell CAL ALPA to make it happen or follow the leader. CAL management needs to learn what real pilots do to get a deal because after 25 years with CAL pilots management never learned.

 

[brokedash]

Good luck UA/CO pilots, I hope you will succeed in getting better terms, espically on scope.

 

[whatitdoing?]

Oil is down. The companies have technically merged. The economy has not cratered yet. Today's world is anything but stable.

UAL ALPA and CAL ALPA are stonewalling without any concern about a timeline. In more stable times stonewalling might be the way to go. But when the two companies are under draconian concessionary contracts and years have passed it is time to sign something short term and go for more as soon as it is signed.

Signing a section by section improvement is also an option the unions are not pursuing.

The unions are also not putting any pressure on the situation. How is the sick call count? How is the on time? What is the media reporting about the pilots issues? What is the media reporting about customer service because of labor issues? None of this is happening.

UAL ALPA needs to break out and tell CAL ALPA to make it happen or follow the leader. CAL management needs to learn what real pilots do to get a deal because after 25 years with CAL pilots management never learned.

UAL ALPA needs to break away?? From what? To go from a concessionary contract to another 8 year extension of another concessionary contract? Please......just go away.

 

[pilotgolfer]

UAL ALPA needs to break away?? From what? To go from a concessionary contract to another 8 year extension of another concessionary contract? Please......just go away.

.............oh, never mind.