Negatives to JetBlue?

[SMMustang]

pipe,

Look into flying trash haulers. Fedex & UPS will always be flying int'l. Also, someone has to fly pax int'l so someone will be flying heavy metal. Don't give up on that dream!

I've flown domestic A320s and 747 (cargo and pax) across the Pacific, and for me personally, the best schedule and QOL came with flying cargo out of ANC.

Blue Bayou,

That is me except the exact opposite. Once I got my NWA slot I couldn't get excited about any other interview. Glad to hear your happy with my company. Proud owner of JB stock.

 

[Tycer]

Pipejockey, I know how frustrating things are right now and that "dream" of flying heavy iron around the world seems so very far away. Think of it this way..... when my grandfather started with TWA in 1935 they were a "regional" airline flying dc-3's throughout the States. He retired on the 747 in 1970 completing an around the world trip. My father was with the original Piedmont. Same scenario smaller equipment around the US at first. He retired on the Airbus 321 coming back from Mexico. My brother inlaw started with United when the best route they had was Hawaii, never thinking that he would fly internationally he currently is on the Bus and most of his stuff is long haul over water. This is not a resume of my aviation heritage, but rather a little reminder that things do and will change. The dream of yours is not a pipedream. There will be many opportunities in the future and if you keep that dream alive you will eventually accomplish it. Good Luck

 

[Mooseflyer]

Ever since I was a youngster, I knew I was going to be an Airline pilot flying heavy iron internationally.

I used to have that same dream - now all I dream about is flying domestically...

 

[Dizel8]

"The only problem I have with JB or any of the LCC's is this. Ever since I was a youngster, I knew I was going to be an Airline pilot flying heavy iron internationally. But because of the downward pressure the LCC's have put on prices and wages, that dream is now just a pipedream. It will never happen. The growth in the furture will be narrowbody domestic. The legacy carriers will not be growing much and thereby limiting ones ability to reach a widebody and fly international."

Well, I am not sure I follow your logic. Are you sad about wages or sad about flying heavies int'l?

As far as wages are concerned, they will probably come back over time, after all, once upon a time there were B-scales, they have since disappeared. I have said it before, but I am sorry, jetBlue has 55 airplanes, as a matter of fact, if you take all the LCC's including SWA, combined they have a few airplanes more than AMR. DAL and NWA currently have the highest pay, not including FDX here, yes, there will be some downward pressure on them, but that has a lot more to do with the economy and 9/11 than a couple of LCC's. As a matter of fact, both SWA and ATA are paid higher hourly than AMR, US, UAL etc.

There are no LCC's flying int'l, so how the growth of those have hindered your chances for this flying is beyond me. If anything, that is one area the majors could further venture into, except now they are all part of alliances.

So, do not be discouraged, this business is just like the weather in Michigan: Don't like it now, don't worry, it'll change

 

[Resume Writer]

Change careers before you get to far then. You will never be happy in aviation. BTW it is not the simple Home Depot analogy you profess to hang dear to, but rather a J C Penneys vs Target story. People used to shop at Penneys but before long they found some of the same items at Target and at a better price. The staff at Penneys seemed miffed when you asked them a question whereas the Target staff was attentive and helpful. With market share going away Penneys tried reinventing themselves as the hipper new place to shop. People didn't buy it and continued to shop at Target. Meanwhile the industry saw the downfall of Montgomery Wards and the bankruptcy of KMart. The workers in retail should heed the warnings of the past and not forget that people always vote with their feet. 75% off of crap, is still crap. It is not always about price, sometimes it is just about meeting expectations. The ones that do it the best will be there along time, fail, and you're looking at a new job.

Canyon,

I understand the analogy you are trying to make a point with about J.C. Penney. However, I was a part of the management team for Penney's in 1984 when they did the turnaround. The reaction was really not towards Target at all. A new President stepped in at Penney's in the early 80's and wanted to reinvent the company - not because of marketshare going away, but because he saw what he thought was the future of retail. They were tired of being the socks and underwear retailer. Let me tell you, there was a huge struggle in convincing everyone of this move, because they did have a very good marketshare of the lower end retailers.

So, they started to upgrade their image by being more "fashion forward," in an effort to compete with Dillards, Robinson-May, etc. What they found was that people were not comfortable with their shift in philosophy. They started to lose the market share of the lower end customer, so they put in "value" items, which went back to the lower price points on some items. They believed that they could get both sides of the market.

What caused the biggest challenge for them was getting vendors to buy into their philosophy. They could not get the big names, like Polo, Ralph Lauren, etc., that the big boys had. So, they did knock-offs of items. Let me give you an example.

There are only so many shoe manufacturers in the US. The biggest one is the Brown Shoe Company, which manufactures shoe for all the big companies. Nine West was the biggest shoe seller at that time. J.C. Penney was not able to get the name brand shoes into their stores, so they contracted with them to do the same shoes, with the same specs, but under a private label, which was Sutton Plaza. The same thing happened with Naturalizer Shoes, which J.C. Penney named 9-2-5. After some time, they were able to start getting contracts with larger shoe companies like Nike, but it took some doing.

Further, the company launched a whole "attitude" adjustment of the staff. I have to tell you that their management program was exceptional. They focused on every aspect of customer service, modeling after the Disney philosophy and that of Nordstrom. I believe that I gained my customer service attitude from J.C. Penney and the thorough education they gave me in operations, personnel, marketing, advertising, etc., has enabled me to run my business successfully for 17 years. They also taught me how to read balance sheets and financial statements, perform sales forecasting, salary cost calculations, etc. I got a great education from them and I will be forever grateful.

You use Target as an analogy. But if you look at the trend of Target now, they are trying to distance themselves from Walmart and Kmart. They have put many things into play with new merchandising, better products, etc. They have one thing that J.C. Penney did not. They are part of Dayton-Hudson corporation, which owns Marshall Fields, Mervyns, etc. So, they can attract big name vendors.

Anyway, I just thought I would provide my knowledge of the situation since I was there when it happened. I have no knowledge of what has happened since I left in 1987.

Kathy

 

[Mr.Aviation]

They are a bunch of Koolaid drinking, blue shirt wearing, wanabe punks!!

 

[B6Busdriver]

Mr Aviation,
We seem to really like ourself don't we? How many cocktails did you have before you came up with this well thought out post? Thanks for contributing nothing!

 

[skirt]

They are a bunch of Koolaid drinking, blue shirt wearing, wanabe punks!!

wannabe what????

I have already been where you seem to think Jetblue pilots aspire to be...got the hours, types, uniforms and stripes to prove it.

...sorry buddy, some of us don't aspire to be anywhere but Jetblue. I'm quite happy here, even having flown the major airline widebody international everybody seems to think is the cat's meow.

As others have said, Jetblue is not perfect, but it is the best place to be for those who are here. If you drool over widebody international flying then seek out work elsewhere. There is nothing wrong with seeking out what type of flying and what type of work culture you want. There is a "perfect" airline for everyone. I'm just happy I found the airline that suits me. In general, most of the pilots here feel the same way. That is why you don't hear too many negatives.

Skirt

 

[potrack]

thanks

Skirt,

I think you summed it up when you said, there is nothing wrong with seeking out the type of flying and work culture you want.

There is a style out there for everyone.

Thanks

 

[CSY Mon]

Been sharing crash pads in Queens with quite a few JB pilots.
Also been commuting on JB 20 or 30 times.

Never met an unhappy JB pilot or FA.

Not sure what the big deal is, but short up-grade times seems to be a real plus..
And brand new planes and endless expansion, etc.

Wish them good luck, but at the same time....Don't forget Peoples Express and other airlines that started up, expanded too fast and poof, flew straight into the history books.

As far as flying long haul / international and all that...
Yes, it has its charm, but one gets tired of being tired all the time.
Remember crossing the Atlantic 3 times in 30 hours.

Could not spell my name afterwards..

The perfect trip is about 2 hours now, all in daylight and with minimum radio and paper work.

Perhaps JB is looking pretty good after all....

 

[Flying Freddie]

Dear Mister Aviation,

I have been everywhere, done everything. JetBlue is the best place I have been. Bite me.

Sincerely,

Freddie

 

[Thedude]

Wow, talk about a thread hijacked by cynacism. Actually there are some of us out here that would actually like to know about the down side of jetblue. Even though it seems to be a great place to work there HAS TO BE A Downside somewhere of some fashion. I am just looking to gain a little insight into the inner ops.

 

[Blue Dude]

The biggest downside to being a JetBlue pilot is dealing with people like Mr. Aviation. Seriously.

 

[Indapool]

I guess I wouldn't like the fact that NeedleDick has sold off EVERY business he ever started after he was able to line his own pockets..

Well that and the Cap'n Goodwrench shirts.

 

[thruthemurk]

<<Even though it seems to be a great place to work there HAS TO BE A Downside somewhere of some fashion.>>

In my experience there are generally two types of pilots to fly with. Those that HAVE to find the downside, and those that are able to focus on the upside.

The first group makes for a much more enjoyable trip.


We will never be perfect, but we won't stop trying.
murk

 

[Daedalus]

Needledick!

Well it looks like indapool hasn't got laid in a good long while. The building internal pressure is obviously affecting his ability to perform rational and coherent internet discourse.

 

[Skank]

I'll see your bite me, and raise you an Inda-ass. While we're on the subject of total jerkoffs...

 

[yaks]

Since no jb moron had the balls to answer the mans question which is the only point I was trying to make, I will have to try. There is an employment contract you must sign as a condition of employment. It means you are an employee until the contract is up (5 years) at which time if neither party does anything it automatically renews for another 5 years. The contract stipulates pay rates of $72/hr for captains and $36/hr for fo's. (Currently paying more but not obligated to, which means if tomorrow they decide that is what they want to pay you that what you will get.) Don't know all the specifics since the pilots were either too stupid to read it or too embarrassed to admit some of the other more onerous aspects. I am certain there are a myriad of behaviors which will warrant you immediate dismissal like trying to organize. So forget about a union should you ever decide to contest any policy the management wishes to implement (the current "benevolent" group or any future bunch) because at the very least your contract will be allowed to lapse and not renewed ensuring there will be no rabble rousers on the property.

Another interesting aspect of the pilot group is their attempt to get a waiver for jb to exceed the 8 hours of flying in 24 rule so that they can fly Long Beach turns. I guess thats great for them. They can fly really long days and diminish the safety margin so they can make a few extra bucks and set a precedent for all the other airlines to point to when trying to push their pilots productivity beyond the already marginal rules currently in place.

I am sure there are others but I am getting disgusted with the whole bunch and don't feel like dwelling on it any more. Incidentally, I have never been a finger pointer with regards to any other company (though I do have reservations about a few of the crappier commuter operations) lowering the bar. The business is the way it is and competition will create trying times for every company at some point. But the incompetence, negligence or outright malice shown by jb pilots has inspired my first gesture in their direction.

 

[a320drivr]

yaks,

As a JB pilot I totally agree with you about extending the 8 hr rule. I think its a dumb idea but that is only my opinon. I also agree with you on the 5 yr contract. Basically when it is up the company can get rid of you for any reason they see fit. I can guarantee you though if they do start letting people go there will be a union in here very fast. I would like to think our mgmt. is above that though. Believe me, JB has some issues but I hope it gets worked out. And no, I dont drink every bit of coolaid mgmt. feeds us unlike some of my counterparts.

 

[KC-10 Driver]

Quoted by Yaks:

But the incompetence, negligence or outright malice shown by jb pilots has inspired my first gesture in their direction.

What are your examples of incompetence, negligence or outright malice? Your post mentioned none of the above.

In answer to the original question. Almost to a person, we all seem to be quite content. Like any organization, there are exceptions.

I have run into an occasional (very occasional) fellow JetBlue employee who was not exhibiting all of what we call the "JetBlue values".

As an example, on a recent flight, prior to boarding, I witnessed a gate agent berating two new flight attendants about a boarding procedures issue, when actually the flight attendants had not done anything wrong. These sort of things are by far the extreme exception. Maybe that agent was having a bad day, or maybe he was truly a jerk? I don't know.

So, to answer your question, every now and then, I come across a person who may make my day a bit less pleasant. Perhaps that person shouldn't be at JetBlue? We really try to catch these people at the interview.

In all honesty, that is my biggest complaint about JetBlue. There are -- like any organization -- a hand full of people who probably don't belong, or at least need to work on their "people skills" (and to be honest, that includes a couple of middle managers in various departments). However, 99.9% of the people here are top-notch -- and that includes all the senior management, in my experience.

As far as work rules and pay, I think it is pretty darn good. By the end of this year (my second year), I will be earning more than I made in my third year at my last company (a major airline with -- at the time -- near industry leading pay).

Sorry, yaks. After working at a company where everyone hated the management, it is a breath of fresh air for me to be somewhere upbeat and positive. It fits me. If it doesn't fit you, then it is a good thing you are not here.

Potrack, I hope this gives you some of the perspective for which you are looking.