Negatives to JetBlue?

[Flying Freddie]

Dear Mister Aviation,

I have been everywhere, done everything. JetBlue is the best place I have been. Bite me.

Sincerely,

Freddie

 

[Thedude]

Wow, talk about a thread hijacked by cynacism. Actually there are some of us out here that would actually like to know about the down side of jetblue. Even though it seems to be a great place to work there HAS TO BE A Downside somewhere of some fashion. I am just looking to gain a little insight into the inner ops.

 

[Blue Dude]

The biggest downside to being a JetBlue pilot is dealing with people like Mr. Aviation. Seriously.

 

[Indapool]

I guess I wouldn't like the fact that NeedleDick has sold off EVERY business he ever started after he was able to line his own pockets..

Well that and the Cap'n Goodwrench shirts.

 

[thruthemurk]

<<Even though it seems to be a great place to work there HAS TO BE A Downside somewhere of some fashion.>>

In my experience there are generally two types of pilots to fly with. Those that HAVE to find the downside, and those that are able to focus on the upside.

The first group makes for a much more enjoyable trip.


We will never be perfect, but we won't stop trying.
murk

 

[Daedalus]

Needledick!

Well it looks like indapool hasn't got laid in a good long while. The building internal pressure is obviously affecting his ability to perform rational and coherent internet discourse.

 

[Skank]

I'll see your bite me, and raise you an Inda-ass. While we're on the subject of total jerkoffs...

 

[yaks]

Since no jb moron had the balls to answer the mans question which is the only point I was trying to make, I will have to try. There is an employment contract you must sign as a condition of employment. It means you are an employee until the contract is up (5 years) at which time if neither party does anything it automatically renews for another 5 years. The contract stipulates pay rates of $72/hr for captains and $36/hr for fo's. (Currently paying more but not obligated to, which means if tomorrow they decide that is what they want to pay you that what you will get.) Don't know all the specifics since the pilots were either too stupid to read it or too embarrassed to admit some of the other more onerous aspects. I am certain there are a myriad of behaviors which will warrant you immediate dismissal like trying to organize. So forget about a union should you ever decide to contest any policy the management wishes to implement (the current "benevolent" group or any future bunch) because at the very least your contract will be allowed to lapse and not renewed ensuring there will be no rabble rousers on the property.

Another interesting aspect of the pilot group is their attempt to get a waiver for jb to exceed the 8 hours of flying in 24 rule so that they can fly Long Beach turns. I guess thats great for them. They can fly really long days and diminish the safety margin so they can make a few extra bucks and set a precedent for all the other airlines to point to when trying to push their pilots productivity beyond the already marginal rules currently in place.

I am sure there are others but I am getting disgusted with the whole bunch and don't feel like dwelling on it any more. Incidentally, I have never been a finger pointer with regards to any other company (though I do have reservations about a few of the crappier commuter operations) lowering the bar. The business is the way it is and competition will create trying times for every company at some point. But the incompetence, negligence or outright malice shown by jb pilots has inspired my first gesture in their direction.

 

[a320drivr]

yaks,

As a JB pilot I totally agree with you about extending the 8 hr rule. I think its a dumb idea but that is only my opinon. I also agree with you on the 5 yr contract. Basically when it is up the company can get rid of you for any reason they see fit. I can guarantee you though if they do start letting people go there will be a union in here very fast. I would like to think our mgmt. is above that though. Believe me, JB has some issues but I hope it gets worked out. And no, I dont drink every bit of coolaid mgmt. feeds us unlike some of my counterparts.

 

[KC-10 Driver]

Quoted by Yaks:

But the incompetence, negligence or outright malice shown by jb pilots has inspired my first gesture in their direction.

What are your examples of incompetence, negligence or outright malice? Your post mentioned none of the above.

In answer to the original question. Almost to a person, we all seem to be quite content. Like any organization, there are exceptions.

I have run into an occasional (very occasional) fellow JetBlue employee who was not exhibiting all of what we call the "JetBlue values".

As an example, on a recent flight, prior to boarding, I witnessed a gate agent berating two new flight attendants about a boarding procedures issue, when actually the flight attendants had not done anything wrong. These sort of things are by far the extreme exception. Maybe that agent was having a bad day, or maybe he was truly a jerk? I don't know.

So, to answer your question, every now and then, I come across a person who may make my day a bit less pleasant. Perhaps that person shouldn't be at JetBlue? We really try to catch these people at the interview.

In all honesty, that is my biggest complaint about JetBlue. There are -- like any organization -- a hand full of people who probably don't belong, or at least need to work on their "people skills" (and to be honest, that includes a couple of middle managers in various departments). However, 99.9% of the people here are top-notch -- and that includes all the senior management, in my experience.

As far as work rules and pay, I think it is pretty darn good. By the end of this year (my second year), I will be earning more than I made in my third year at my last company (a major airline with -- at the time -- near industry leading pay).

Sorry, yaks. After working at a company where everyone hated the management, it is a breath of fresh air for me to be somewhere upbeat and positive. It fits me. If it doesn't fit you, then it is a good thing you are not here.

Potrack, I hope this gives you some of the perspective for which you are looking.

 

[BlueBusDriver]

Dear "GOD"........

"But the incompetence, negligence or outright malice shown by jb pilots has inspired my first gesture in their direction."


JUMBO BALLS !

Man, what a real "professional" you are. If I would lower myself to your level, I'd send you a "gesture" right back at you. I won't stoop that low for now. I'll just think of you as a disgruntled little dirtbag who needs to vent.

Good luck to you and that "opinion" that you're carrying around on your back.

 

[zonker]

Off topic, but I think extending the 8 hour rule is a good idea for some day turns.

For example, I recently flew a LAS turn that arrived at 1230 in the afternoon, 11.5 hours of rest at the hotel (Oh yea, I slept like a baby ) , and then flew the red-eye back to JFK at 1245am.

I guess I'm just a punk for thinking this way.

 

[Skank]

Yaks, you puke (sorry for the redundancy) Get a life!

 

[B6Busdriver]

Yaks,
You can always re-apply after six months.

 

[side stick-n]

Give Yaks a break guys. He's obviously a bit cranky and probably just needs a nap. From the appearance of his profile, I would bet he's a disgruntled AA pilot that is blaming B6 for the financial hardship the airlines are facing and his forced move to the right side of the 80. Relax Yuks, it's not your fault. You're nice enough, you're good enough and dog gonnit, people like you. I'm glad I don't have to wonder if you are in the cockpit of my flight cause I would be inclined to believe that you are a bit unstable and I would have to take another flight.

 

[Crizz]

They are a bunch of Koolaid drinking, blue shirt wearing, wanabe punks!!

Im sorry, but thats friggin funny...



Carry on!

 

[Dizel8]

"Since no jb moron."

Thanks pal!

Could it truly be, that the jb folks are pretty happy and in general like to work here? Nah, that would be too scary a thought!

 

[AA717driver]

I would say that any airline that is growing like JB and is profitable is pretty good to work for.

The test is when the growth slows down or maybe when the split pay scale comes in and the company tries to put a lock in place(although that's nothing new in the business).

JetBlue isn't bringing down the profession any more that AA did in the 80's with their innovative B-scale. In fact, AA's recent contract leaves a little to be desired. TC

 

[dgs]

OK. I'll tell you two negatives about working at JetBlue:
1. The commute to NY.
2. The van ride down the Van Wyck Expressway to and from JFK.

Those are about the most negative things I can come up with. I think the answers from JetBlue pilots tell you a lot about the company. The fact that we don't have much to complain about is a huge benefit to working here! Sure we have a few things that need work, but the company leadership is well aware of any issues because THEY LISTEN TO US! As a result of their actions, we have a lot of faith in what they are doing for us and the future of the company.

Yaks' complaints are typical of those outside the company who simply don't understand how things work here because they can't relate.

Yes, we have 5-year contracts. It is really not an issue like it is for people in other companies. Here the contract is just a piece of paper in the file cabinet, not something we refer to on a daily basis. The actions of management mean more and they have gone well beyond the contract in terms of improved pay and work rules. They continue to be very supportative of all crewmembers. Nobody is afraid of getting canned at the 5-year point. If you are doing something you deserve getting fired for, why would they wait until the 5-year point to do it? You are not going to get fired for talking about unions, but you will get a lot of feedback from other pilots who have plenty of experience with unions and don't want to screw up this good deal.

The "8 in 24 rule" ideas we are considering are actually designed to enhance safety, not compromise it. Some people are just a bit too paraniod about change. This subject has been covered elsewhere ad naseum, so I'm not going to rehash all the arguments here. Suffice it to say that exploring options which enhance safety is a positive, not negative about JetBlue.

The rest of the insults appear to stem from a fear of competition. The irony is that JetBlue is still a fairly small carrier. There are lots of places we don't go. If larger carriers focused on making money in those markets, instead of worring about the few places we fly, everybody could be profitable and both the airline industry and the flying public would benefit!

 

[dlredline]

Since no jb moron had the balls to answer the mans question which is the only point I was trying to make, I will have to try. There is an employment contract you must sign as a condition of employment. It means you are an employee until the contract is up (5 years) at which time if neither party does anything it automatically renews for another 5 years. The contract stipulates pay rates of $72/hr for captains and $36/hr for fo's. (Currently paying more but not obligated to, which means if tomorrow they decide that is what they want to pay you that what you will get.) Don't know all the specifics since the pilots were either too stupid to read it or too embarrassed to admit some of the other more onerous aspects. I am certain there are a myriad of behaviors which will warrant you immediate dismissal like trying to organize. So forget about a union should you ever decide to contest any policy the management wishes to implement (the current "benevolent" group or any future bunch) because at the very least your contract will be allowed to lapse and not renewed ensuring there will be no rabble rousers on the property.

Hey Sally, for your information I worked 15 years under a previous ALPA "contract", 5 years with a B-scale, 12 years with a no-furlough clause, and a Defined Benefit retirement plan with a potential $1.5 million lump sum staring at me at retirement. Great protection from my "union", only to have ALPA throw it all away the past few years, along with my job. What's that union contract doing for me now?

Look sport, a ton of us have been on both sides of this fence. I chose jetBlue because of the culture, value system, and confidence in senior management, a refreshing change from the "eat your young" atmosphere that prevailed at my previous ALPA carrier. I've been around long enough, and I've earned the right to make whatever choice I wish. With 2 undergraduates and a law degree, I have no problem with the jetBlue contract language. You are entitled to your "opinion", but until you walk a mile, dude, careful who you start calling "stupid".

Red

 

[usav8r]

Ditto Above!!

WELL SAID RED!!

 

[airbaker]

Ditto on that one Red!

 

[colorado418]

I guess I wouldn't like the fact that NeedleDick has sold off EVERY business he ever started after he was able to line his own pockets..

Well that and the Cap'n Goodwrench shirts.

Have you ever met the man? Do you think that the guys from Moris Air are doing that badly at Southwest? Do the options that we have now indicate to you that he is trying to screw the pilots? Do you have any intelligence on the subject at all? Or for that matter any of the other JB bashers on this thread? If you hate the company so much, just ignore us then. I have found very few threads that have been started by JB pilots that go around touting our company. It is always someone else that has seen an article and posted it.

Yaks, If you want to know the negatives, submit your application on line. It will go into the data base with around 8,000 or so other pilot applications. (All pilots that I am sure are just waiting to find out all the bad stuff here). If you are fortunate enough to get called for an interview, prep well. You will need it. Then you can come down to MIA and meed David and Dave for yourself and make your own decisions about how bad our contract is.


Man oh man do I love working here!!!!!

 

[Skank]

Yaks is a professional embitterment consultant. His services are not needed here.

 

[jetblue320]

I guess I wouldn't like the fact that NeedleDick has sold off EVERY business he ever started after he was able to line his own pockets..

Well that and the Cap'n Goodwrench shirts.

Yea, all ONE of them. I guess that is EVERY. ANd his name is Neeleman BTW. If he is a needledick, how come he has 9 kids?


I will add one thought; the man looked me in the eye once in the cockpit and told me that one of his goals was to see me be a millionaire. I thanked him and wished him well on attaining his goal.

So phooey on you

 

[CSY Mon]

Hmm, lots of Cool-Aid here.

How long does it take to get a FLL base....?

How many days off a month?
Still fast upgrades? 6 to 9 months?

Thinking about applying again, just curious.

 

[jetblue320]

Hmm, lots of Cool-Aid here.

How long does it take to get a FLL base....?

As an FO, probably not long, maybe 6 months or earlier. As a Captain, quite a while, very senior domicile.

How many days off a month?

The guaranteed days off is 12. The normal is probably 15-16, 18 if you're senior.

Still fast upgrades? 6 to 9 months?

Negative, closer to 18 months to upgrade. Of course, when the EMB190 shows up (Aug 2005) it'll change the scheme of things.


Thinking about applying again, just curious.

Hope that helps.

C yaaa

 

[CSY Mon]

Yup, that helps, thanks.

Has the pay scale for the 190 been established yet?

(Being non-union, ya don't negotiate with managment right.....?)

Is there some movement or buzz about voting a union in on the property?

Or is most everybody content and no union needed, like Fed-Ex in the early days...?

Again, just curious...No bashing or propaganda...

Say hello to R.K. he was my FO once..Now Check airman with JB right?

 

[Bill Mostelar]

Thans for the facts of this story Kathy. It is nice to hear the real story once in a while.

Cheers

WM

 

[thruthemurk]

18 month for upgrade is no longer true.

Pilots hired today are looking at closer to 30 months for upgrade based on current aircraft deliveries. this number could be affected by the number of pilots that bypass their first upgrade availablity on the 190 - which will depend in no small part on the pay rate....not yet released.