Need Info from Mooney Experts

[msw]

I'm thinking about buying a fast four-place aircraft, have a budget of up to about $190,000 or so. Considering a Mooney, but I know little about them. Can some Mooney knowledgeable aviator give me the run-down on the pros and cons of, and the differences between, the following models, in approx the early '80's to mid-90's vintage years: 252, TLS, Bravo, Ovation.

If I've left any models out, please feel free to enlighten me. Ideally, I'd like something fast, that can get up into the mid-high teens, preferably has built-in oxygen, and maybe, if I can afford it, has TKS deicing. (I have no experience with TKS; maybe someone can tell me how that works, and how GOOD it works.) Thanks.

 

[JimNtexas]

You want to join the Mooney mailing list, a terrificly fun list even if you own another airplane.

Browse their archives and then post your questions there. You'll get answers from Mooney test pilots, CFIs, and long term owners.

http://www.aviating.com/mooney/lists.html

 

[wmuflyguy]

Did part of my commercials pilots license in a Mooney Ovation. Plenty fast and it was pretty loaded EHSI, GPS, Fuel Totalizer, Dual axis autopilot. It was a bit of a pain to slow-down, but that was probably due to my limited experience in the aircraft.

It had a lot of gear problems, but that may have been due to the fact we were using it for flight training and it really isnt a good trainer aircraft. A bit tough to land due to lack of a good shock absorbtion system on the gear, it had 3 rubber disks on each gear (looked exactly liek hockey pucks)...If you werent paient it would bounce. I have the manual someplace, if i kind find it i can send you some performance numbers.

It was awesome on cross-countrys.

 

[bigr]

A slippery bird. I had an instructor that got into a spin in one. it took him 5000 ft to recover.

 

[GC1B Flyer]

Talk to some A&P's and get their opinions. You'll hear about the tightly packed instrument panel, the engine/accessories crammed up against the firewall, and the other hard-to-service areas. This translates into more $$$$$.

Talk to some pilots and get their opinions. You'll hear about the great performance, the wing that has never suffered an inflight failure, landings that are unforgiving of poor technique, and cramped quarters if you put 2 or more people in it.

Just go for a good used Cirrus, you won't regret it. Plus, you insurance/maintenance will be significantly cheaper. I see that you are quite experienced, so the advanced technology might strike your fancy. Available with de-ice now, too!

regards,
GC1

 

[KPTPK]

Look hard enough and you might find a Lancair that fits your budget!!

 

[empenage]

Mooney is spelled "money" with 2 o's.

I had a 201 way back when. It was fast and sipped gas.

 

[Moonfly201]

Mooney ... good choice

For the turbo and year/price range you have two choices ... the Mooney 231 or Mooney 252.

The 252 is the better engine (Lyc), newer airframe and I believe all of them have built-in O2 and King Autopilot.

The 231 is the earlier turbo with a terrible (Cont) engine, came with GB=goes bye bye, the next version was the LB=little better, and the best replacement engine was the third and final variant the MB=much better.

A lot of the 231's had the Century Autopilots which are very problematic and expensive to keep working, if not impossible at any cost.

Regarding TKS anti-icing option, I don't believe the 231 or 252 has one that is K-Ice certified. Mooney supplied the TKS fully certified sometime in the 1990's, and it comes with extra pumps etc. Whether it is certified or not, the TKS works great actually coating the aircraft in alcohol. Useful load suffers, and the supply of alcohol is limited. You need to understand that any priority or emergency handling in severe icing conditions will most likely result in an enforcement action due to its' lack of certification.

If it was me looking for a turbocharged Mooney I would go straight to the 252 section of Trade-a-Plane. I currently own a 201 and is IMO is the best of the bunch, however normally aspirated. I fly with GAMI injectors on the lean side of peak, true airspeed of 145 to 150kts., and burn 7.5 to 8.5 gal/hr. About 15,000 is as high as it goes and you need smooth air as downdrafts at that low-power availability level are a killer. Plenty of power available up to around 12,000 feet.

Mooneys are great planes, just make sure to get a good pre-buy inspection by someone who knows Mooneys, and is not friends with the guy selling it.

 

[typhoonpilot]

I tend to agree that the 201 is the best of the lot. Maintenance costs will be much less for a 201 than any of the turbocharged models. That said, if you are operating hot and high and really need the turbocharger then I would agree that the 252 is a better plane than the 231. Not sure if Top Gun in Stockton is still around, but they were the best Mooney maintenance guys on the west coast. Might try giving them a call and see what they recommend (209) 983-8082.

As a tall skinny guy I really like the interior of the Mooney. It is a lot like driving a Datsun 240Z. If you or your passengers are fat then you won't like it .

The last new Mooney I flew was the 252 so I have no experience with the newer models. If I was buying a single engine plane to move around the country in I would buy the 201. I guess it will depend on your typical mission as to what better suits you.


Typhoonpilot

 

[Vik]

I don't kow if this is your first plane or not, but do a lot of research on buying a plane. I spend 80-100 hrs reading up on buying a plane and I felt I was still in over my head after I bought it and it is only today, 8 months later that I feel comfortable.

Whats your mission? Why not a twin? You certainly seem to have the flight time to be a responsible twin pilot.

I got a Piper Twin Comanche. With your hours, your operating cost would be around $120/hr b/c your insurance would be fairly cheap. Its a 4 place (6 place on models after 1965 but most people take the 5,6 seats out for cheaper insurance) .. does 160 KTAS @ 16gph TOTAL .. look at what AOPA was able to do with a junker Twin Comanche with around $225,000 (which was not really effeciently spent).

There isn't a twin today that can match the PA-30 for the fuel burn, the operating costs, the payload, the speed.

I'm thinking about buying a fast four-place aircraft, have a budget of up to about $190,000 or so. Considering a Mooney, but I know little about them. Can some Mooney knowledgeable aviator give me the run-down on the pros and cons of, and the differences between, the following models, in approx the early '80's to mid-90's vintage years: 252, TLS, Bravo, Ovation.

If I've left any models out, please feel free to enlighten me. Ideally, I'd like something fast, that can get up into the mid-high teens, preferably has built-in oxygen, and maybe, if I can afford it, has TKS deicing. (I have no experience with TKS; maybe someone can tell me how that works, and how GOOD it works.) Thanks.

 

[mayday1]

or how about a used Bonanza? I'm not too up on prices, but I imagine you could get a nice one for $190k.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

or how about a used Bonanza? I'm not too up on prices, but I imagine you could get a nice one for $190k.

That crossed my mind reading this thread.
Heck of a better plane than a Mooney. IMHO.

 

[beernuts]

Did part of my commercials pilots license in a Mooney Ovation. Plenty fast and it was pretty loaded EHSI, GPS, Fuel Totalizer, Dual axis autopilot. It was a bit of a pain to slow-down, but that was probably due to my limited experience in the aircraft.

It had a lot of gear problems, but that may have been due to the fact we were using it for flight training and it really isnt a good trainer aircraft. A bit tough to land due to lack of a good shock absorbtion system on the gear, it had 3 rubber disks on each gear (looked exactly liek hockey pucks)...If you werent paient it would bounce. I have the manual someplace, if i kind find it i can send you some performance numbers.

It was awesome on cross-countrys.

I used to teach in those M20R's at BTL in fact I may have flown with you. But they were $400,000 airplanes. Though they are probably selling for much less than that after being abused as trainers for 6 years. Nice to hear they are getting Arrows, much better suited to training. Just wish I could have had a chance to fly the Sabre and Conquest (only if they repaint pinky though)

 

[wmuflyguy]

I used to teach in those M20R's at BTL in fact I may have flown with you. But they were $400,000 airplanes. Though they are probably selling for much less than that after being abused as trainers for 6 years. Nice to hear they are getting Arrows, much better suited to training. Just wish I could have had a chance to fly the Sabre and Conquest (only if they repaint pinky though)

I saw the mooneys still sitting in Grand Rapids (Northern Air, i think) a month ago, when i was doing approaches with a student, apparently no buyers yet for them. The Arrow seems to be working out much better for the school. Now the talk to is to get Cirrus Aircraft to replace the 172 fleet. Cirrus has been up here a few tiems and flown some of our people down to the factory. I'll believe it when i see it though.

That conquest is an ugly shade of pink, they arent sure how long till it is airworthy, and i guess the sabre will never fly again.

Who do you fly for now? I started instructing at WMU this past August, so chacnes are we may have flown together.

 

[BD King]

Okay. Everybody will say Huh? Take a look at the Meyers 200. I have a weakness for the unusual. That's why I married a redheaded Irish lass.........Want two engine's? Ernie Gann's Derringer is for sale and a 190K will buy it.

 

[Vector4fun]

Okay. Everybody will say Huh? Take a look at the Meyers 200. I have a weakness for the unusual.

Me too.
There's one listed on ASO with an IO-550 in it... Whaddya figure, 210 kts?

Sweet airplane, but if ya ever bend it, ya gotta make your own parts.

I've never flown the newer Mooneys, so I don't know, but the older Execs and Rangers don't fly as nice as an F-33 Bonanza. Though for efficiency, it's sure hard to beat an old M20C with manual gear and O-360.

For that kind of money, and just for personal travel, I like the F-33 and the AC114. Both are very comfortable, but neither would be as fast as a 252 either.

If Hi altitude performance and icing protection were important, then consider a Seneca II with boots. Yeah, it's a twin Cherokee, but I'd feel a lot better in it than a Mooney with TKS if I was in icing. And it'll haul four plus a couple Staff bags...

 

[Flyin Tony]

If you want to go fast, burn alot of gas, and carry a ton of mass. Look at a comanche 400. Nothing like 190kts at 8,000.

 

[BD King]

If you want to go fast, burn alot of gas, and carry a ton of mass. Look at a comanche 400. Nothing like 190kts at 8,000.

Yeah, but keep it off the nose gear on landing.

 

[350DRIVER]

Just my opinion but if I had a $190k to spend it surely wouldn't be on a Mooney. May be a "nice plane" but you could get one heck of a used A-36 with the 300 hp IO-550 in it. Even a used F model, do some research on them. Most of the "Bananas" hold value quite well.

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