Navagating across the pond before GPS

[Benhuntn]

Spooky, well son if you look you will see I have flown aircraft that were before my time in the 89th. And yes we would monitor the HF and find aircraft going to our destination...ie, Hickam, Guam, Lajes etc and we would use their contrails to verify what the Nav thought his position was. I had a nav that flew out of Grissom for yrs that always used 0degrees variation when planning nav legs and when he made his first Atlantic crossing he was heading well off course. The reason was we had an ave variation of 20 degress. So contrails were always a good backup. Now stay out of these adult forums and go back to how to become a CFI or VFR pilot

 

[Spooky 2]

Spooky, well son if you look you will see I have flown aircraft that were before my time in the 89th. And yes we would monitor the HF and find aircraft going to our destination...ie, Hickam, Guam, Lajes etc and we would use their contrails to verify what the Nav thought his position was. I had a nav that flew out of Grissom for yrs that always used 0degrees variation when planning nav legs and when he made his first Atlantic crossing he was heading well off course. The reason was we had an ave variation of 20 degress. So contrails were always a good backup. Now stay out of these adult forums and go back to how to become a CFI or VFR pilot

"Well son", I love it! Throttle back a little and you will see that comments were not meant to diss you. I have any number of friends that flew in the 89th and a couple of them are on this web site. I value their opions above many other that might post here. I was just looking for some more insight to the early nav days from the 50's through the the early 70's...something that you are not very familair with apparently. The fact that I was a Nav in the 60's should show that I'm not some Johny come lately to this game. As a matter of fact your insults only confirm my worst fears about your upbringing in this business. I bet your a real piece of work to fly with for a whole month!

Lets bury the hatchet....nothing to be gained here for sure!

 

[GuardGuy]

Navigating was a fun job back when you actually had to navigate. I'm very fortunate to have exited the nav world when I did, but I have fond memories especially of bouncing around the Pacific through places like Wake, Kwajelein, Midway, Yap, Palau, and getting to see places like Enewetok, Iwo Jima (actually got to do touch-n-gos there), Bikini.
Keep talking, this is good stuff!

This is really good stuff. Mr Seagle I am currently at Little Rock for Nav FTU and our instructors are always giving us a hard time about how easy we have it with SCNS, and a laptop displaying our GPS position on Falcon View. They hardly mention Cell and pressure anymore, which is a shame. It would be nice to get an overview of it.

The syllabus is getting ready to change again when UNT heads back to PNS. 10 months total training; 5 months learning navigation, and the last 5 becoming an EWO, everyone.

 

[Benhuntn]

Spookly if I am a piece of work, you are a tool and probably a retired 06.

 

[seagle]

Cel Nav

Guard Guy,

I was an IN back at Mather AFB before they changed the syllabus to a track system. All Navs went through Day and Night Cel including keeping the "log". Advanced Nav for non-fighter types included Loran and Pressure Nav along with Grid Navigation procedures. I have always felt that Cel Nav, Radar Nav, and the log we carried were the corner stone to having a fundamental understanding of Air Navigation. Is there no more instruction in Cel anymore at Nav School?

 

[Deli Guy]

I was a student on the very last T-29 nav training mission, followed by a few missions in the mighty T-43. We learned how to navigate with sextant (HoMoTo), driftmeter, pressure pattern, consolan, manual Loran (used an oscilloscope to measure time difference, then plot the TD on a Loran chart), and of course, dead reckoning.

We even had a class on A-N ranges!

So you remember putting shoe polish in the eyepiece of the sextant, so when the nav looks into it he comes away with a hysterical "black eye" he does not know about until he looks in the mirror. Anyone remember the PLZT?

 

[seagle]

Sextants

How about setting in the filters on the sextant for night cel or watching students playing U-Boat commander because they forgot to extend the sextant? Night cel training made for some memorable flights!

 

[GuardGuy]

No, they took Cell nav out of the syllabus several years ago. The only insight we get to it at Randolph is a glass case with some of the equipment in it and a few paragraphs talking about it.

Also, they no longer teach Grid Nav to at UNT. It is now a certification for those units that go to the Poles.

 

[seagle]

Sad to hear that about the Cel Nav. It did more than just teach you about celestial navigation - it demanded that you understand and use dead reckoning and taught you how to navigate under pressure. I guess HOMOTO had his last flight several years back.

 

[Candlerman]

This is probably the best thread FlightInfo has had in years (what this board should be)... Keep the posts coming!