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NAT Track Question

wahoo250

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When flying international and your course overlies a NAT track (at FL430) are you considered on a track, over a track or on a random route?
 
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wahoo250

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Nat Track Question

When flying international and your course overlies a NAT track (at FL430) are you considered on a track, over a track or on a random route?
 

Full of LUV

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Too high

When flying international and your course overlies a NAT track (at FL430) are you considered on a track, over a track or on a random route?

Your too high, no NAT track up there, random route that will have to be read back. Have a nice flight, no speed restrictions....
 

wahoo250

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Hey thanks, its just a wording thing I wanted to confirm. Technically speaking...Gotta love the the guys that ask technical questions and you answer them correctly and they get pissy on you...
 

Gulfstream 200

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When flying international and your course overlies a NAT track (at FL430) are you considered on a track, over a track or on a random route?

Your Track Message will tell you the altitudes for the tracks

heres tonights:

EASTBOUND TRACKS
NAT TRACKS FLS 310/400 INCLUSIVE
11/05/08 0100Z TO 11/05/08 0800Z

U CYMON DENDU 51/50 52/40 53/30 54/20 DOGAL BABAN
EAST LVLS 320 330 340 350 360 370 380 390 400
WEST LVLS NIL
EUR RTS EAST NIL
NAR N95B N97B N99A-

V YQX KOBEV 50/50 51/40 52/30 53/20 MALOT BURAK
EAST LVLS 320 330 340 350 360 370 380 390 400
WEST LVLS NIL
EUR RTS EAST NIL
NAR N79B NN83B N85A-

W VIXUN LOGSU 49/50 50/40 51/30 52/20 LIMRI DOLIP
EAST LVLS 320 330 340 350 360 370 380 390 400
WEST LVLS NIL
EUR RTS EAST NIL
NAR N63B N67B-

X YYT NOVEP 48/50 49/40 50/30 51/20 DINIM GIPER
EAST LVLS 320 330 340 350 360 370 380 390 400
WEST LVLS NIL
EUR RTS EAST NIL
NAR N53B N59A-

Y COLOR RONPO 47/50 48/40 49/30 50/20 SOMAX KENUK
EAST LVLS 320 330 340 350 360 370 380 390 400
WEST LVLS NIL
EUR RTS EAST NIL
NAR N43A N49A-

Z SOORY 43/50 46/40 48/30 49/20 BEDRA GUNSO
EAST LVLS 310 340 380
WEST LVLS NIL
EUR RTS EAST NIL
NAR NIL-

REMARKS:

1.TRACK MESSAGE IDENTIFICATION NUMBER IS 310 AND OPERATORS ARE
REMINDED TO INCLUDE THE TMI NUMBER AS PART OF THE OCEANIC
CLEARANCE READ BACK.

2.CLEARANCE DELIVERY FREQUENCY ASSIGNMENTS FOR AIRCRAFT OPERATING
FROM KENKI TO BOBTU INCLUSIVE:
KENKI TO VIMLA 132.02
MIBNO TO LAKES/KENRI 134.2
MOATT TO SCROD 128.7
OYSTR TO DOTTY 135.45
CYMON TO YQX 135.05
VIXUN TO YYT 128.45
COLOR TO BOBTU 119.42

3.GANDER OCEANIC CLEARANCE DELIVERY CREW PROCEDURES AS PER AIC
29/06 OF THE CANADIAN AIP.

4.OCEANIC PROCEDURES IN THE EVENT OF A GANDER ACC EVACUATION ARE
PUBLISHED IN AIP CANADA ICAO PART 2 ENR 1.8.

5.EASTBOUND AIRCRAFT SHOULD NOT CONTACT SHANNON CONTROL UNTIL 3
MINUTES BEFORE SHANWICK/SHANNON BOUNDARY.

6.80% OF GROSS NAVIGATIONAL ERRORS RESULT FROM POOR COCKPIT PROCEDURES. ALWAYS CARRY OUT PROPER WAYPOINT PROCEDURES.-
 

ProFracPilot

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... no speed restrictions....

Just curious. Was this comment intended to be part of your answer about being on a random route? Or, is it just some random comment that nobody but you gets?
 

G4G5

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You still have speed restrictions
 

Gulfstream 200

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maybe he meant you are more likely to get the speed you want at that altitude.

I dont think I have ever NOT gotten the speed I wanted?

maybe down al FL350 at prime time airline world...but anything higher? nah.
 

Full of LUV

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Bingo!

maybe he meant you are more likely to get the speed you want at that altitude.

On a random route or higher altitude, you almost always get the speed you request. Using the NAT tracks can be speed limiting due to traffic during peak times.
Luv
 

stupidpilot

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In your Oceanic Clearance you will be specifically given a NAT Track identifier if you are on a NAT Track. My course has overlaid a track many times but was considered random because I wasn't assigned a track.

Does that help?
 

wahoo250

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yes, thats the way I answered the question, however I was told I was wrong...
 

stupidpilot

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Who told you that? Make them prove it. I'm pretty sure they are wrong.
 

propsarebest

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....
If you are given a clearance and it includes "NATX" or something like it, you are on a track. Now you can file a step climb and climb right out of the tracks. The track altitudes change every day, with every track message. If you climb beyond the highest altitude on the track message for your track, you are no longer on the tracks, even though your flight plan may be the same lat longs as the entire track.


Ohh and the eastbound tracks are based off of 30W. If you are not at 30W at the right time, 1-8Z, then you are not on a track, but you can still file the same lat/long pairs as the track.

Say for instance you leave BGR and get to 30W at 0815Z, you are will not be on the organized track system because you passed 30W after the valid track times. You can file and fly the entire eastbound track, but you will not ber on the track.

Ohh, and ALWAYS file TWO coast out points, eg, COLOR and RONPO then LIMIR and DOLIP.

Clear as mud?
 

ProFracPilot

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Ohh, and ALWAYS file TWO coast out points, eg, COLOR and RONPO then LIMIR and DOLIP.

Clear as mud?

Uhhh, no.

Please explain this further (or provide a definitive reference, i.e. from MNPSA 2008). I've never filed (or had filed on my behalf) 2 coast out / coast in points.
 

treetop flyer

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Please explain this further (or provide a definitive reference, i.e. from MNPSA 2008). I've never filed (or had filed on my behalf) 2 coast out / coast in points.

Same here...I've never had 2 coast out/in points filed for me. Can you explain???

Treetop
 

fu69atacafyeah

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Same here...I've never had 2 coast out/in points filed for me. Can you explain???

Treetop

I agree and thats wrong...you only need one. go find the definition/meaning of a "coast out/coast in" waypoint and then look up mnps airspace and its confines and then reference an orientation chart...hopefully you will be able to figure it out.


backing up to the speed remark of "no speed restriction" on a random route, thats wrong?
 

stupidpilot

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It depends. If there is someone else at the same altitude on the same route they will speed restrict you or assign you a different route.
 

DXR-Beavis

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Uhhh, no.

Please explain this further (or provide a definitive reference, i.e. from MNPSA 2008). I've never filed (or had filed on my behalf) 2 coast out / coast in points.

I'm guessing what he is referring to is the way at least some airlines (maybe some bizjets) file a next best in the ICAO flight plan. My carrier does it routinely. We also use acars to request/receive oceanic clearances.

In an ICAO it looks like this:
(FPL-AAA1-IS
-B787/H-SDHIPRWXYZ/S
BALIX/M078F330 NATB HO/N0454F330 N302C SPOTE/N0453F340 N302C
MOFAT/N0461F360
-EET/EGTT0015 EGPX0029 EGGX0135 BIRD0217 EGGX0254 CZQX0254
REG/N12345 SEL/AAAA NAV/RNVD1E2A1 RNP10
RMK/NRP USA O2.C330)

Filed on NAT B. The O2.C330 indicates NAT C is my second choice at FL330. I could put an O3.A330 for a third chioce. On a random it would be O2.RS330 or RN330 for random north/south.

When the acars clearance request is sent it looks like this to ATC:
AAA0001-BALIX/1056 M078F330
-RMK/2ND NATC 2ND F330 MAX
F350
43C3

Neither is required. You can do one without the other, and the result is about the same. It is pretty useful when you're in the NAT tracks in the thick of traffic. On randoms, not so much.
 
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