My response to SWA package!

[madjack]

Lear,

How much of a raise do the AAI CPs get becoming SWA CPs and what do the SWA FOs with greater longevity get out of the deal?? Can't we all share in the windfall the AAI pilots are getting in this deal...should we share? or do you have to share as per M/B Fair and Equitable standard??

Would the AAI CPs accept pay protection if they became SWA FOs?? They "lose nothing" and may gain better bidding power, QOL, job security, insurance (as per the SWA/SWAPA mailer) etc...As SWA FOs they would be vested in our success and future growth so that they can upgrade and get the big pay raise...or must all that risk be taken by the existing SWA FOs at no cost (and a lot of gain) for the AAI CPs??

 

[redflyer65]

No, they're not. Several of our CA's looked at your pay calculator your union sent. They take a $12k-20k pay CUT to go from AAI 737 CA to SWA 737 F/O, and that's using numbers your union provided.

Not all years of CA's get a pay raise becoming a SWA F/O.

I will admit that I didn't see the packet, but that is completely false..in the most simple of terms using all factual, current data it looks like this..

AAI most senior CA rate 163/hr X 70hr guarantee = 11,410 per month.

SW most senior FO rate 130.24/trip X 87 guarantee = 11,330 per month.

That was as 'straight out of the book' as I can make it. I didn't even open the conversion from TFP to HR can of worms. I understand that both pilots can and sometimes do work more than the minimum, but I just used a simple baseline.

The numbers don't lie, and I didn't skew them. If I used the Sept 26th payrates, it would be even a larger difference.

RF

 

[OldManPilot]

I found the info in the booklet to be direct and helpful. I saw nothing there to get upset about. My wife and I both read the entire thing and found useful information. It took a great deal of time and energy to make each one personal. Thank you SWAPA for sending these out. Again I look forward to the integration.

 

[ASADFW7]

If we both dig in and close our borders as pilot groups we all know AAI has more to not gain then SWA pilots. All further deliveries are going to the SWA side. There is no growth for AAI. The AAI pilots may see the old AAI order list as lost growth, but there are no guarantees in aviation. The SWA pilot group had no growth in prep to buy AAI, yet where does that factor in? Still with no growth AAI is better off being owned by SWA then then old AAI group. The stress of how this will integrate hopefully will soon be lowered. ask spirit, or jet blue if they would rather be owned by SWA than current management, heck ask us airways.

There are 6000 positions outside of the ATL, mco, and mke bases that AAI operates. There are a lot more pieces for AAI to chose from then the AAI current positions. The SWA pilot group already has mco, and mke may close post integration, I do not see hundreds of SWA pilots flooding into ATL over night. I do not care how you slice it, if SWA opens up the borders for AAI pilots out of ATL, that is a big qol gain for aai commuters right there.

 

[Kharma Police]

If we both dig in and close our borders as pilot groups we all know AAI has more to not gain then SWA pilots. All further deliveries are going to the SWA side. There is no growth for AAI. The AAI pilots may see the old AAI order list as lost growth, but there are no guarantees in aviation. The SWA pilot group had no growth in prep to buy AAI, yet where does that factor in? Still with no growth AAI is better off being owned by SWA then then old AAI group. The stress of how this will integrate hopefully will soon be lowered. ask spirit, or jet blue if they would rather be owned by SWA than current management, heck ask us airways.

There are 6000 positions outside of the ATL, mco, and mke bases that AAI operates. There are a lot more pieces for AAI to chose from then the AAI current positions. The SWA pilot group already has mco, and mke may close post integration, I do not see hundreds of SWA pilots flooding into ATL over night. I do not care how you slice it, if SWA opens up the borders for AAI pilots out of ATL, that is a big qol gain for aai commuters right there.

I agree that there might be an exodus of commuters out of ATL, however there will be a huge influx of Southwest FOs who will jump at the opportunity to upgrade in any base available. Commuting to Atlanta from anywhere around the country would be fairly easy and with the number of flights that Gary Kelly has planned out of ATL, lots of potential for captain vacancies.

 

[madjack]

KP,

Asking the SWA pilots to rely on the "POTENTIAL" for lots of CP vacancies in ATL is not sharing the risk of this acquisition. Why should the SWA pilots agree to allow the AAI pilots to get ALL the gains of this acquisition while they assume all the risk?? Who was bought here?? What is in this deal for the SWA pilots to offset the GAINS that the AAI pilots are getting, we have to share the toys as Ty likes to say...

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

No. Seniority is everything in this business. SWAPA didn't construct this merger, the CEO did. Airtran pilots don't owe them anything, the CEO wanted this done. An arbitrator will look it over and hear testimony, and figure out what is actually fair. Seniority is forever.


Bye Bye--General Lee

You are right and wrong General. Money is the reason we all go to work. The SWAPA contract dictates the money. Seniority dicates the where and when you go to work. The real heart of the issue here is that due to the demographic differances between the two groups relative seniority is a moving target. If the AAI pilots are awarded relative as of the snapshot their relative seniority actually improves over time vs where it would have been in a no acquistion scenario because they are a younger group while mine is degraded over time. The value of their career is greatly increased while mine goes down. Upholding everyones career expectations here is impossible because they are imcompatable.
I realize as you have stated ad nauseum that you think this will go to arbitration where the AAI pilots career expectations will be the only ones considered. I guess in your view fair and equitable only applys to one side

 

[Flycatcher99]

KP,

Asking the SWA pilots to rely on the "POTENTIAL" for lots of CP vacancies in ATL is not sharing the risk of this acquisition. Why should the SWA pilots agree to allow the AAI pilots to get ALL the gains of this acquisition while they assume all the risk?? Who was bought here?? What is in this deal for the SWA pilots to offset the GAINS that the AAI pilots are getting, we have to share the toys as Ty likes to say...

Not to mention, all these "potential" gains that AAI folk are saying that SWA folk will gain, will also be gains for AAI folk. So using that argument as a gains for SWA folk not only does not measure up to what AAI folk are getting, but it also details an additional gain for AAI.

And Lear, if you are going to attempt to make the ludicrous argument that some Captains at AAI are taking a pay cut, I would at least start with the pay rates that were not affected by the SWA purchase.

 

[Lear70]

Not to mention, all these "potential" gains that AAI folk are saying that SWA folk will gain, will also be gains for AAI folk. So using that argument as a gains for SWA folk not only does not measure up to what AAI folk are getting, but it also details an additional gain for AAI.

If you're looking for "equal gain", you're not going to find it. If you can get past that and find that *SOME* gains on your side are worth signing off on helping Southwest move forward and compete better in the market place, great. If not, then debating you is rather pointless. I'd be better spent utilizing my time debating someone who isn't already a "NO" vote, regardless of what the outcome is unless it's a pure seniority windfall for SWA pilots at AAI pilots' expense (because an outcome like that is doomed to failure on our side and is such a non-starter our MC won't ever bring it to us - they already promised that - it'll go to arbitration before that happens).

And Lear, if you are going to attempt to make the ludicrous argument that some Captains at AAI are taking a pay cut, I would at least start with the pay rates that were not affected by the SWA purchase.

It's not *MY* argument, it's something our CA's pointed out on our internal message board. I haven't done the math, but I trust a couple of them that have (I think it's only one or two year brackets that the disparity happens and it's for the guys who fly their minimum and go home).

As for the rest, it's ludicrous to use the old rates. They don't exist anymore and can't be rolled back. This point moving forward is all that matters in the real world of how much money they have deposited every month for their flying as an AAI CA versus a SWA F/O. What used to be doesn't matter. What's happening now does.

 

[Kharma Police]

KP,

Asking the SWA pilots to rely on the "POTENTIAL" for lots of CP vacancies in ATL is not sharing the risk of this acquisition. Why should the SWA pilots agree to allow the AAI pilots to get ALL the gains of this acquisition while they assume all the risk?? Who was bought here?? What is in this deal for the SWA pilots to offset the GAINS that the AAI pilots are getting, we have to share the toys as Ty likes to say...

Wow, I'm still quite amazed by the pettiness of you guys. You guys would still probably b!tch if we got stapled........