Multi Time in a Sim

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This is a stupid question, I know... but I'v easked it of several I.P.s here locally and none can give me the same answer.

We have a simulator, an AST 300, i beleive. Fully certified and allowed by the FAA as a flight training device.

When one logs time in it, does that also count towardsa their overall Multi time? I doubt it myself, but wishful thinking nevertheless.

thanks!

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[low&slow]

That would most likely be the AST-300 sim, not ASE.

That time does not count towards multi time (which is considered "flight time") but counts towards "sim/ftd" and "dual" only.

 

[bobbysamd]

Sim time

Yup, it counts only as Simulator/Flight Training device. I don't believe it can count as dual received. I believe that "dual received" is aircraft instruction only. In fact, ground instructors can give training in flight training devices.

Please, please, please, keep it out of your total time column.

 

[Data]

Check out the FARs. Under 61.109 i1 you can use 2.5 towards a Private, in 61.129 i1i, you can use up to 50 hours towards your Commercial. But like the others have said, don't use it for total time.

 

[Caveman]

"Please, please, please, keep it out of your total time column."

bobbysamd,

Why not? I've always logged sim time and FTD time under the TT column and the SIM column, I just don't put it under anything else. When you add up my SE, ME and SIM columns they equal my TT. They do not equal my PIC + SIC because I don't count the sim/FTD as either of those.

The Feds allow the use of a sim or FTD, depending on the circumstances, for a multitude of ratings, certifications, and recurrent training. Why shouldn't it be under TT?

I've logged this stuff from day one and I've never had a fed or potential employer ever question it. Two 121 carriers looked at my logbook and they both offered me jobs. I really don't see any problem with it as long as I don't try to log it as actual flight time, in other words as PIC or SIC.

The one that stumps me is trying to figure out how to log dual given in a sim. I have about 400 hours dual instrument training given in an FTD. Every hour of that was loggable for the students and counted towards their instrument rating but I haven't been able to figure out a way to use it to my advantage. What's frustrating is that the students couldn't have logged it if I hadn't signed the books as dual given. What I've opted to do is just keep a separate column and not count this in any other totals, including TT.

There was a little known interpretation that said IF you met all other requirements for an ATP but did not meet the 1500 TT you could have used dual given in a sim/FTD to bring you up to the 1500TT. Notice I wrote this in the past tense. I don't know if that interpretation is still valid. That's why I originally started to keep track of this time in the first place. I didn't end up using it but I still have the time accounted for.

What do the rest of you guys do with dual given in a sim or FTD? I'd be especially interested to hear how the 121 sim instructors log that time or if they even bother.

 

[atpcliff]

Sim time in Total Time???

Hi!

I only log sim/ftd in it's column. I never thought of logging it in TT but NOT PIC/SIC/Dual Rcvd, as the Caveman did.

What do you airline pilots/interviewers think of this idea?

It would help me a lot. I would go from about 1650 TT to about 1900 TT. I have a lot of MEJet sim time.

Opinons, Please!

Thanks for the help

Cliff
GB,WI

 

[flx757]

Just my own personal opinion and the way I do it...As a 121 sim instructor/check airman, I don't log anything in my pilot logbook for the time I am running the sim....however, I do keep a separate log of the students' names and the nature of the sim session. When I receive sim training and/or checks, that time goes in the SIM/FTD column, but never in the TT. To me, it is not "flight time", and that is all that ever goes into my TT.

Again, just my $.02.

 

[Caveman]

atpcliff,

Please allow me a minor clarification. I do log SIM/FTD time as dual rec'd if the instructor signs my logbook.

 

[Caveman]

In seems as if I'm in the minority about logging sim/FTD time in the total column. Frankly, that surprises me. I just assumed everybody was logging it the same way. I'm not convinced I'm doing anything inappropriate, but there is still what I like to call 'industry standard'. If the majority of folks at the professional level don't do it this way, right or wrong, I want my logbook to be representative of what most folks are doing. It saves a lot of questions that way and it might keep my resume in the good pile.

I thought I avoided logging anything controversial. For example I know the regs say I can log actual instrument time when I'm the NFP in a 2 crew airplane but I choose not to. I know exactly how much actual instrument time I personally have flown and if push came to shove I could estimate what the other guy flew by multiplying mine by 2 and subtracting 15-20% for a fudge factor.

Some of this stuff is pure opinion, including my own. If you can clearly show exactly what's going on in your logbook and you aren't padding or trying to decieve anyone I don't think anyone will hassle you.

 

[zoom]

Sim Time

Sorry for starting this little controversy.

Here's what I have since learned. I spoke with an FAA Examiner yesterday and insofar as using sim time towards ratings, as long as the sime or FTD is approved by the FAA, he said you could log it towards your total time.

The FARs allow a maximum, of course, as in the instrument rating. For me, I'm allowed to apply no more than 100 hours towards the 1500 for the ATP.

Anyway, I hope this helps.


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