Multi Time in a Sim

[Huck]

I also have always logged sim time as TT. My reasoning is simple: that training is required for my job, for my line qualification under our Part 121 training program. It is "high gain" learning time. If I can justify logging TT in a C-150, I can certainly justify it in a level D MD-11 sim. Until the FAA clarifies TT requirements, I'll stick to my interpretation. 3 interviews and not a question about it.

 

[bobbysamd]

Total time v. Flight Time

Here's where I'm coming from. Take a look at these definitions:

Part 1 - Definitions and Abbreviations, 14 CFR 1.1:

Flight time means:
(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing . . . (bold added)

(Yeah, a lot of Riddlers in Prescott have a ton of flight time from just being 10th in line for takeoff! )

and

14 CFR 61.1(b)(6) Flight training means that training, other than ground training, received from an authorized instructor in flight in an aircraft.

Dual (instruction) generally means flight instruction in an aircraft.

So, in light of these definitions, I do not believe it is correct to lump in your sim or flight training device time with your total time, because it is not logged in an aircraft.

I used this web site as my FAR source: http://www2.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFar.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

Hope that clarifies things somewhat. As always, five different people, five different interpretations.

 

[BeechScrub]

Hey Caveman...

You mentioned something earlier about logging actual instrument time when you are the non-flying pilot in a 2-pilot crew. I thought that in order to log that time, you had to be the PIC of the flight. Are you saying that an FO can log actual when he is not flying?

I totally understand your reasoning with not wanting it in your logbook, I wouldn't either. I just wanted to clarify.

BeechScrub

 

[flx757]

BeechScrub,

There is a thread which discusses this issue in detail. Look in the
FAR section under "Logging IMC time".

 

[Caveman]

Do a search. There was a thread fairly recently that will do it more justice than I could. But, the bottom line is that yes the NFP in a 2 crew airplane can log actual IFR just like they log night time. It's a condition of flight and as a required crewmember you must be there so you can log it. Like I said before, I choose not to for personal reasons.

 

[Caveman]

5 minutes earlier and I woulda had ya.......

 

[NWA-AirGuard]

I log sim time in total time because part 61.51(b)(1)(ii) says to "log total flight time or lesson time." Just because the log book says "total time" doesn't mean that part 61.51 says its for "total flight time." Also, part 61.1(b)(12) says:
Pilot time means that time in which a person-
(i) Serves as a required pilot flight crewmember;
(ii) Receives training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device; or
(iii) Gives training as an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device.

One aspect no one has talked about is "other time" (a term the air force uses) or when you have more pilots on board than required (i.e. long international flights). I have a lot of flights in the E-3 and the KC-135 that there were 3 or more pilots. So for part of the flight I wasn't in a pilot seat and thus logged "other time" for that part of the flight. I put the total duration of the flight in the total time column and only the time I was in one of the pilot seats (primary and secondary time) in the multi-engine column. To get my total pilot time for an airline interview I add up my SE and ME time. Kind of like I can't look at my PIC column and use all of that time for most airlines applications PIC time. Only time I "signed for the aircraft". In others words your log book isn't solely for an job interview, but also for currency and training for ratings.

 

[MartinFierro]

I am rusty on my regs in this area, but what about simulated instrument time? Can't you do 6 approaches in an FTD and count them all toward your IFR currency? I think I remember reading this. And if this is the case, wouldn't that suggest that it is loggable time as simulated instrument time?

 

[skydiverdriver]

I have an older logbook, and the total time column says total flight time. I have never logged any sim, no matter how sophisticated, as total time. All of my total time is in flight in an aircraft, which I think makes it far simpler. I think doing it another way may cause problems in the future. Good luck to all.

 

[bobbysamd]

Approaches in the sim

Sure, you can count your approaches in the sim for IFR currency. You only need three hours of instrument time in aircraft for currency if passengers are to be carried. 14 CFR 61.57(c)(2)(ii). The other three hours can be in the ground trainer.

But, it is still ground trainer time and in my .02 opinion should be kept out of your flight time column. Log it as simulator or ground trainer.