Multi Time for the Regionals

[Jimbodawg]

Hi all... looking for a bit of advice.

I am trying to get to the regionals but am lacking the multi. A friend offered to me to ride along with him on his cargo runs and log the empty legs. How do most regionals view this type of time? Should I ask my friend to sign each entry as dual recieved? or should I just log it as PIC.

I am asking because I hear a lot of airlines require not only PIC time, but PIC as pilot responsible for the a/c.

thanks

 

[Rook]

Dont log it it as PIC since you did not sign for the aircraft. I think that logging it as dual received might be your best bet. Assuming that your friend is an MEI of course.

Rook

 

[sweptback]

Do whatever you can to (legally) build flight time.

If it's a airplane that you can log PIC in without needing special training to make it more or less official, then log it as PIC and don't elaborate. If you want, have him sign it as dual given. Still, 50 hours of dual given in a piston twin would look a little weird, I'd think. Maybe the first 5 or so hours would be sufficient.

The airlines that care about the "signed for" PIC time are majors more or less, and the regionals just want to see multi time, not PIC time for the most part.

As long as you aren't logging PIC time in a King Air, or during 135 flights, or asleep in the back while your buddy flies, you shouldn't have a problem.

 

[Vik]

What kind of aircraft is it?

As far as not having signed, I don't think it matters for the regionals unless ALL your time is like that. A lot of CFIs I know that went to Skywest had split time with other CFIs and that means half the time was as safety pilot.

You might not be signing, but as long as you're flying the plane and getting experience, at least for the regionals, I would log it. By the time you get to applying to the majors, you'll have so much time that this little bit of multi time without signing for the plane will be minor.

Hi all... looking for a bit of advice.

I am trying to get to the regionals but am lacking the multi. A friend offered to me to ride along with him on his cargo runs and log the empty legs. How do most regionals view this type of time? Should I ask my friend to sign each entry as dual recieved? or should I just log it as PIC.

I am asking because I hear a lot of airlines require not only PIC time, but PIC as pilot responsible for the a/c.

thanks

 

[Vik]

Something else .. whatever aircraft it is, if you plan to log a significant amount of time in it, realize that you'll need to know the aircraft in and out during the interview. You can't have 50hrs in a Seneca and not be able to tell the interviewers about it. You were PIC after all and how could you be PIC if you don't know the aircraft?

 

[SloDoDriver]

VIK has a point. If you have significant time in an aircraft then you are fair game for questions when they peruse you logbook during the interview. Alot of times they ask you what AC you would like to talk about. I thought I would talk about my CH-47 time since I was sure they wouldn't know anything about it (Tandem Rotor Helo). It turned out that one of the interviewers flew the Ch-46 which has some commonality....I got hired.......

 

[upndsky]

This is a little of the topic, but when I was flying freight, our Part 135 certificate prohibited us from carrying passengers on revenue legs, unless they were employees, feds, or cargo handlers. Not to mention the insurance implications if there were an accident.

While you're buddy's intentions are noble, he may be putting his career in jeopardy. It takes one ramp check to end it all. We had one guy get fired because he was taking his friend along. He didn't get ramp checked, but someone apparently ratted him out.

The offer may be enticing, but the question you have to ask is this: During an interview, can you confortably explain how you got the hours? I know at XJT, they would give you a hard time.

I've always been conservative when logging time -- maybe too conservative -- but it your career and I believe in erring on the side of caution.

 

[svcta]

good deal

I am working for my old company flying cargo in twin cessnas since I've been on furlough. Our Ops Specs don't prohibit us from taking a second person. We do passenger charter, as well, though so it may be different on a straight cargo cert. Don't know. During the summer we get guys that ride with us all over the place. I love it because I get somebody to do the radios and charts for me. It really lightens my load tremendously. I can justify taking just about anybody for that reason alone; anyone with a pulse can become a helpful crew member at times, in my opinion. Anyhow, these guys riding with us would have 3 or 400 hours and over half of it in C-310 or C-402, just by logging the 91 legs. Now that I'm back at it(and flying out of a new city) I'm always trying to find a 'rider'. Good for me, good for them.
I say go for it: It's a great opportunity to not only build time, but to see how a real operation can work(135 is a LOT different than 91). Just understand that some of these companies can promote some dangerous flying at times, know what your personal limits are. And don't be afraid to stay behind.

 

[svcta]

Oh, yeah, I forgot..

Just log it all as PIC(the empty legs, I mean). Naturally(as others have said) you want to use some common sense; get a little dual first, and log the rest as good old fasioned PIC. Don't get all worked up over little details. You want multi time. The regionals want you to have multi time. Simple as that, as long as you can convince them that you can really fly that kind of airplane and are familiar with its systems/speeds, you're good.

Do it.....do it.

Marty Finckle

 

[upndsky]

Yeah, I flew for a cargo-only 135 operator, hence the passenger restriction. I just posted this because I'd hate to see somebody get burnt, even if the intent was good.

I agree that riding along is valuable experience. It's just that I've seen guys get shot down on an interview because of some questionable time.

To the original poster, make sure you can legally ride along, then study the hell out of the airplane. You will be asked about it on an interview. What kind of plane is it, BTW.

 

[svcta]

Upnd, you're absolutely right about the discretionary aspect of this situation. I, too, had a friend get screwed in an interview like that. He had a bunch of time in a 414 or something like that and the interviewers flat out told him that noone would have insured him in that a/c, so they didn't believe him. Fact of the matter was that he flew the airplane for a doctor who was self-insured, and that he actually was flying the airplane. But, he didn't explain it like that. I believe he just told them that it didn't matter because there is no reg. requiring insurance. Doh! Sometimes I can't believe the nerve of the interviewers, though. I'd have a lot to say to somebody if they looked at my logbook and called my a liar/criminal.

Sheesh.

 

[PalmettoPilot]

Log It!

SVCTA makes good points. The interviewers want you to have time, you want the time and per Part 91 if you are sole manipulator of the controls, including the autopilot, then you are the PIC.

BUT, if you have an aircraft in your logbook, you must be "check-ride" prepared to discuss it in the interview.

I had about 20 hours of multi when I started flying right seat in a C90. I got a lot of great instruction and experience from the other pilot and was able to legally log the legs I flew. This flying gave me the time and experience to qualify for a 135 multi job where I flew as PIC by both Part 91 and Part 1 definitions.

When asked about the C90 experience in the interviews I was prepared to answer all of thier questions because I had taken the time to study the POH and learn the airplane.

One thing I did learn the hard way though is not to take anyone's advice without documentation. Look up the regs and find out what they say about logging time. Be able to back it up legally and explain why you logged time. If you can't back it up you will certainly be challenged.

 

[Jimbodawg]

multi

Hi thanks all for the replies!
to answer upndsky it is a C-402. I am seriously considering CoEx, and I don't want any problems with the time logging. Of course I will only log the 91 legs.

 

[100LL... Again!]

If ya wanna get technical, no one really has to 'sign for' the aircraft on a part 91 leg.