Mormons and Frisbee

[ATL2CDG]

What I'm saying is the book of Mormon is a bunch of hooey.

I'd like to reiterate my position that given you know basically NOTHING about the LDS church beyond hearsay and half-truths, I feel you're the LAST person on this message board to make such a mature, rash and in-depth assessment.

 

[Super 80]

You know, I've studied God's Word for a long time, and I don't know anything about the book of Mormon. I've even watched Mormon shows detailing the various lessons in the history of the book of Mormon. But I have yet to see the need to actually read it. I guess after the Bible, I don't need anything else, especially something as patently foolish as the book of Mormon. If I want to use my time efficiently, I'll let some other Christian scholar do it for me. There are enough of them that have thoroughly debunked Mormon doctrine based on its conflict with Biblical Scripture that I do not have to study from those duped in order to refute it.

You find that passage in question and I'll be more than happy to discuss it.

[ALMA 18:9] And they said unto him: Behold, he is feeding thy horses. Now the king had commanded his servants, previous to the time of the watering of their flocks, that they should prepare his horses and chariots, and conduct him forth to the land of Nephi; for there had been a great feast appointed at the land of Nephi, by the father of Lamoni, who was king over all the land.

This is the passage I remember.

Once Joseph completed the translation, the LDS church states they were taken to heaven by Moroni.

HOW CONVIENENT!

I doubt you stand qualified to judge Smith a 'proper prophet' or not.

Oh I think I can throw out his "book" quite easily and with authority. When you contradict the Bible, you are talking about heresy.

 

[ATL2CDG]

When you contradict the Bible, you are talking about heresy.

Please provide me with a direct quote or quotes from the Book of Mormon showing a direct and unrefutable contradiction of the Old or New Testaments of the Christian bible.

 

[Super 80]

Please provide me with a direct quote or quotes from the Book of Mormon showing a direct and unrefutable contradiction of the Old or New Testaments of the Christian bible.

Sorry, the Christian Book Store is closed right now.

Besides, what about those horses? Care to explain that?

Could you tell me what land mass the Kingdoms in America that the book of Mormon describes covers?

How did these ancient people interact with the native Indians?

Just how many kingdoms were there and how large were they?

Good thing they had all those horses too. Care to explain how this Moroni angel and Joseph Smith are the only ones that know horses were in North America before the Spanish brought them in?

You said you'd explain that verse in Alma if I found it. I have. Now explain it.

 

[johnpeace]

Please provide me with a direct quote or quotes from the Book of Mormon showing a direct and unrefutable contradiction of the Old or New Testaments of the Christian bible.

Here's one:
"And Behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God" — Alma 7:10.

The Bible (the gospels and OT prophecies telling of the Messiah's coming) identify Jesus as being born in Bethlehem.

And our friends at Apologetics Index (great site!) have compiled a list of some other points where the Bible and the LDS church don't see eye to eye.

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/m04d.html

 

[ATL2CDG]

I stand corrected that the horse was brought over, I only read one reference about horses being prepared possibly for a chariot which in itself is a hoot. The passage in Alma 18 sounds like what I remember.

By you're own admission, you were wrong, so I have nothing to explain; your argument was wrong.

Furthermore, the LDS Church contends that the 'Native Americans' were the descendants of those people in the Book for Mormon. The precise details, I know not. However, the church makes very good points - if you're openminded enough to read their literature.

 

[ATL2CDG]

Here's one:
"And Behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God" — Alma 7:10.

The Bible (the gospels and OT prophecies telling of the Messiah's coming) identify Jesus as being born in Bethlehem.

And our friends at Apologetics Index (great site!) have compiled a list of some other points where the Bible and the LDS church don't see eye to eye.

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/m04d.html

Regarding 'Jerusalem', I was able to draw this from Joseph Fielding McConkies' Jesus Christ: the Fundamental Verity:

"At Jerusalem" These words have spawned a host of heckles and sneers directed at the Book of Mormon. Persons of a skeptical and cynical spirit ask: "Didn't Joseph Smith know that Jesus was born of Mary in Bethlehem?" We answer: Yes, he was born in Bethlehem, but he was also born at Jerusalem, meaning that Bethlehem, the smaller community, was within the environs of Jerusalem, the larger city. In our day it would be as if someone froth Sandy or even Provo, Utah, had said to one somewhat unfamiliar with the Wasatch Front, "I am from Salt Lake City."

 

[Super 80]

No no no! Now your stink is starting to clump!

Just because I was assuming the horses mentioned came over does not refute the fact that the book of Mormon said there WERE horses here before the Spanish brought them over!

Futhermore, Indians were in America long before 1500 B.C. And if that were not enough, if you are going to say the Indian nations that are as diverse as this land with all the varied ethnic groups that are Asiatic in origin are now Semitic, that is a another new one that qualifies as a whopper of a tale.

In fact this whole farcas is getting stranger and stanger!

And JohnPeace comes up with a direct factual contradiction!

What do you say now ATL2CDG or are you going to slink off?

 

[Super 80]

In our day it would be as if someone froth Sandy or even Provo, Utah, had said to one somewhat unfamiliar with the Wasatch Front, "I am from Salt Lake City."

Sorry, the Hebrews were VERY specific when it came to where they were from. Bethlehem is not a suburb of Jerusalem. In fact it is more than a few miles from there in a time when the average person walked.

 

[414Flyer]

yeah its pretty well established scientifically, both genetically and anthropologically, that the "Indians" are Asian in origin, and not Israeli/Hebrew.

You wont find anyone outside the LDS church that believes that in the isreali/indian story. However in the 1830s around Joe Smiths time, there were those that believed it. It wasnt an uncommon belief then.