More valuable military flight time?

[Hugh Jorgan]

Of course, letters of recommendation, personality, who you know, are all variables that have to be taken into account.

Close. They are THE variables (unless of course either Joe or John happen to come equipped with a vagina).

 

[pb4ufly]

The Breakdown:

Word.

Some airlines are different, but here is a breakdown, in order, of the most valuable military flying time. In other words, if you were interested in applying to ALL the airlines/cargo - here's the best time (generally speaking):

1. Fighter PIC
2. Trainer PIC
3. Jumbo PIC
4. Transport/Tanker/Recce PIC
5. All SIC
6. Other

Who cares to dispute?

 

[vetteracer]

Quote
Close. They are THE variables (unless of course either Joe or John happen to come equipped with a vagina).


Hugh, once again, you made my day!

 

[firstthird]

I'll dispute.

I think a better matrix would be

1. fighter PIC
2. transport/tanker/recce/jumbo PIC
3. trainer PIC
4. fixed wing SIC
5. other

(all of the above fixed wing)

I think the only airline that ever counted T-34 time as 'fighter' was UAL on their scantron. The problem with putting trainer above tanker, etc. is that for some companies (FDX, jetBlue) the T-34, T-44 (and T-37, T-1, and T-38 for all I know) don't meet the 20k requirement that jetblue and FDX have (different but similar, one requires PIC in greater than 20k multi i think and the other just requires over a 1000 in greater than 20k, can be SIC). I lumped jumbo in with transport because I've never heard that KC-10 time is better than C-130, but who knows.

There are some that think jet is better than turbo-prop, but it seems the P-3, C-130 guys do alright at getting on with majors, so at least from a military standpoint, I think the recruiters are looking for fixed wing turbine PIC as the big breakout.

Long way of saying, I think the T-34 time is not as valuable as KC-135 or C-130 or P-3. T-44 is better than T-34 (mutli vs. single). Fighter best of them all most likely.

Used to be at SWA that 1000 turbine PIC was 1000 turbine PIC (T-34 or F-15 or B747) doesn't matter. But, with the new 'competitive screen' I don't know if that is true anymore.

The one given is that rotary time buys you very little at the airline job fair. I'm not saying it is fair or good, just that if you are a military helo bubba, you'll need to get some fixed wing turbine somewhere before most majors will even look at you.

(edited for grammar and probably still a mess at that)

 

[Falconjet]

Come on, everybody knows that Coast Guard Falcon time is the most highly coveted military flight time by all the airline hiring departments!

At least that is what I heard somewhere.

All in good fun, since I don't think there is really a correct answer.

What ever gets you the legitimate PIC time and you enjoy doing is the best flight time, military or civilian.

FJ

 

[Cyclone]

everything else is rubbish

Good one FJ...you're right too.

I think some of you missed this point: airlines don't hire a pilot to "get through new hire training." The majors at least are hiring Captains...and who makes a better Captain? Not necessarily "all about flying skills."

I've been at airline X for almost a year now...who were the best Captains?

Answer...civilian and military.

Who were the worst Captains?

Answer civilian and military..

The best Captains have humility, make you feel comfortable, treat you as an equal, help you in a positive way, get along with the whole crew, etc.

The worst Captains are impatient, they are "superior"...they stereotype you, me and everyone else, they nitpick, they make you feel small...they make mistakes and you look the other way...you make a mistake and hear about it all day...you get the point.

Which is...treat everyone with respect, try to do a good job, don't assume anything about someone because of their background...don't take yourself too seriously but take the way you're supposed to do things seriously and try to be perfect...and you too can be a good Captain some day...no matter where you came from.

Something for all of us to aspire to.

 

[RJP]

So are you guys saying that my "OTHER" time is useless? **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**! I've got over 1000 hours of "OTHER"........:0

 

[exm3585]

75% off shipping......same discount I get!

Again, Thank you to all of you that help us get to and from work, even though we can't reciprocate.

ALWAYS glad to have you. The discount we get is great!..I also love to hear how you get paid so much for flying so little, haha...it is a true inspiration...

I would love to work for Fedex, but the nite thing bothers me. I'm such a morning person. I only fly trips now that report early and end early, rarely work nites.

Have a good day.

 

[TonyC]

I also love to hear how you get paid so much for flying so little, haha...it is a true inspiration...

HA ! ! !

You should send that one to Snopes.com. Verdict: MYTH!






.

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

I have decided to write an end all be all to this argument (yeah!).



Joe Civ vs. John Mil.



Employers look at Joe Civ as an unknown. He has proven himself via his longevity and survival. He has not bent anything up, or slid off of runway, or run out of gas. They look at John Mil as a known. He went through a system that is well known and proven. They realize that he has less then half the time of Joe Civ, but know the training he has gone through was fast and furious. And, they are comfortable with him. Of course, letters of recommendation, personality, who you know, are all variables that have to be taken into account.

The first part of your post is just fantastic and something a lot of folks have been saying for a while now. However, I do take a little bit of an exception to this last paragraph. Guys like myself are "knowns" in the world of airlines. I currently have five years with a "small-jet" airline. My airline's (as with all others) training program is identical to that of a major. I should know because when I worked for a previous 737 airline my training was contracted out through Delta. I trained right along side of the Delta new-hires.

Later, I moved to my current airline, a small-jet operator. My training at this airline has been virtually identical. Our training center is just like the Delta one except much smaller (we only have three sims) and there is no swimming pool .

I believe the whole "known quantity" thing is just another cute name for bias. I am not saying that it is right or wrong, but if the interviewer is former military then he knows what the military guy went through and not the "regional" guy. If the interviewer is a civilian then he knows what the "regional" guy went through and not the military guy. So, in a nut shell what I am trying to say is that hiring is all subjective.

A wise man once said to me, "the only diference between a civilian new-hire and a military new-hire is six months." Meaning, after six months on the line they are virtually indistinguishable.

Frats,

PS: I just reread your post and saw that you are a civilian pilot. So, once again proving my point that everything is subjective.

 

[vetteracer]

Capt. Caucasian great point.

I was trying to encapsulate 2 very similar people and why Joe mil may get a call to interview prior to Joe Civ.

Of course with all the variables (And Vagina) this is a theory and just that.

Your other point hist the nail square.
The best pilots and flight instructors are the ones that are good teachers and mentors. The foster confidence in you and provide a relaxed environment. I have flown with some pilots who are more concerned about showing you how right and perfect they are and how you are not. It is more about there lack of confidence.

Mark