More valuable military flight time?

[Hugh Jorgan]

And the original question was...

Out of curiousity, which military pilot do you think would have a better chance of getting hired at a major...

Nobody ever correctly answered the question.
The answer is, the one who has the most people willing to walk his $hit into the CP's office at whichever airline they are trying to rush. Duh.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Sluggo,did someone actually consider the Tweet a 'tactical' aircraft? No way!

Way.

 

[Nalo Boy]

This is ridiculous!

Everyone knows that Microsoft flight sim 2000 is the MOST valuable flight experience ANYWHERE.

Those guys that have FALCON 3.0 time are always washing out of training.

 

[SeaSlam]

Yeah, I'd like to see all these military guys fly single pilot in something that does not quickly climb to 370 (or 170 for that matter). By the way, try this in the mountains in the winter time in the middle of the night. Did I forget to mention you have no AP. Try this and then get back to me about how ANY military time is the best, that is a joke. Oh wait, you guys have never had to fly in such adverse conditions, yet you are the best. Odd don't you think?

When did the military stop flying in the mountains when it's dark or stormy? Someone should probably tell that to some of the C-130 guys I met flying in Antarctica last month...they'd be happy to come home.

You could also ask yourself how many times you've landed 23 hours into your 26 hour duty day at a blacked out piece of highway in Iraq or Afghanistan that's lit by a few infra-red lamps while dodging small arms fire, AAA and SAMs.

 

[AlbieF15]

...most valuable military time in my mind is time in combat.

I tried for 14 years to get some "combat" missions, but other than a few rotations over Iraq when things weren't flaming hot it just never happened.

On the other hand, a guy 2 UPT classes behind me shot down a Mirage during the Gulf War, and one of my best bros from another squadron shot down at least one Mig-29 over Kosovo. One guy a class behind me at UPT and his flight lead destroyed a record number of tanks as A-10 drivers back in 91, and he is now a FDX pilot. Several guys I know who "quit" active duty promptly became combat stars during OIF as part of an ANG team. So...you just never know.

Combat time simply eliminates most of the "what would this guy do under pressure" type questions. Unfortunately, it is one type of time that you cannot schedule or have much control over...timing and fate seem to dictate generally who will be in the middle of things and who will be either A-stuck on the ground not flying or B-in a training squadron somewhere when the big show happens.

All that aside...life at home with family has been great. I was training students at Tyndall during Kosovo, and flying BFM in Key West during OIF. I guess some of us fulfill our destinys in other ways...

 

[vetteracer]

deleted wrong thread

 

[El Cid '95]

Albie15 summed it up well. I know there will be some fighter dudes who will roll their collective eyes at this, but here goes anyway. There we were, on a dark and stormy night just SW of Saddam Intl. It was late March 2003 and the "shock and Awe" Campaign was not going as well as we all had hoped. We were straight and level, 220 KIAS, and at FL 150. We had to refuel lower than our fragged altitide due to an overcast deck. My KC-135 copilot had 400 hours total time in airplanes and my boom operator had less than 200 (with 25 of that coming in the trip into theater.) The boom made contact with our A-10 receiver, the Co flipped on the AR pumps, looked out his window and said the most memorable words of my flying career, "Cool!!!, hey pilot, check out the ground fire at 1 o'clock low...hey wait a minute" I looked at 1 o'clock and saw the AAA tracking right towards us. That's when I broke EMCON and called the breakaway and then proceeded to set the rate of climb record for the tanker. When AWACS told us to return to our track and descend I responded with a "yeah right, why don't you run this by CAOC first." The A-10 on the wing saw it before we did, but for some reason did not tell his flight lead, which is always the tanker during AR! We broke a myriad of SPINS, violated AR procedures, pissed off our "ATC" controller, but I would do everything exactly the same if in the same situation. A lot of tanker flight time is droning, but giving gas over Iraq with a serious threat below, with absolutley no defensive measures on the jet was my most valuable flight time. But will it get me an interview--probably not!

 

[hr2eternity]

Cool Story

Good one dude. I agree that heavy time can sometimes be challenging too. I have shut down no less than a dozen engines, had two electrical fires, two rapid D's, hydraulic misting, fuel spills in the cargo box, pieces of the wing fall off (no kidding), massive fuel leaks, a few windscreen failures, myriad instramentation failures, landing gear that wouldn't come down (way more than once), the list goes on and on and on. Sound familiar anyone?

The mighty C5 has been trying to kill me for years. One more year to go before I retire from the Reserves (which got me in with a major Freight Carrier, so I'm not complaining.) And I'd much rather be dealing with Airplane stuff failing than getting shot at!

 

[Juvat]

I know there will be some fighter dudes who will roll their collective eyes at this, but here goes anyway.

I never roll my eyes at tanker guys. I was over Iraq just after Desert Fox in the summer of '99. We chased down a couple of Mig-23s and ended up so low on gas that we probably weren't going to make it back across the Saudi border to our tanker track. One of the KC-135s (that had been listening in on our UHF strike freq) was already on the way north across the border into bad guy territory. Those guys totally "hung it out" to pull a couple of F-16s out of a bad situation. After we landed, I went over to their squadron hooch to say thanks. Here's the cool part of the story: the KC-135 pilot was my old roommate from college! I had no idea during the flight! Ever since then, I always buy the first round for a tanker crew.

 

[vetteracer]

I have decided to write an end all be all to this argument (yeah!).



Joe Civ vs. John Mil.



Joe and John are the same age, and go to the same college. There freshman year they both get their private pilots license. Second year Joe gets his Instrument rating and Commercial. John Mil joins ROTC. Both are engineering students and work hard at school. Third year Joe Civ gets his CFI and CFII and John mill stays current and holds his private. Senior year Joe civ has been instructing during the summer and part time during school and John mil is busy studying hard for ROTC. Both graduate and Joe Civ slides into a 135 operation flying old piston twins hauling checks. John Mil goes active duty and his first year is spent doing something other then flight school. John mil stays current flying the clubs 172. Joe civ after a year has 2000 TT and 800 PIC multi.



Second year John Mil goes to UPT. Studies very very hard. Training is intense, and relentless and you sink or swim. He studies hard and graduates in the top of his class and gets the aircraft of his choice, fighters. He goes on to fighter training and as he was thinking UPT was hard, they crank the pressure up on the fire hose. Joe civ has upgraded to a turbine aircraft that was built for 2 pilots that he flies by himself. He did about 5 days of training and some sim time and off on line he goes. After another year Joe Civ has 2800 TT and 800 PIC turbine. He has been flying about 4 hours a day in the Midwest in t-storms ice and what have you. John mil has been honing strategic flying including tight formation, gunnery and high speed operation. He is expected to know multiple operations and coordinate them; he is also an officer and has ancilary duties as well. John mil has about 550 hours TT, with almost all of that jet time.



John Mil is now done with training, for now, and is flying all over the world. His deployments take him to hot spots around the world. He flies over mine fields, avoids artillery and missiles. He uses night vision to help land at unlit runways at night. To get to were he is going, he has to refuel in flight. The margin for error is nil. Being at the right place at the right time and on target is his main mission. Joe CIF is still flying turbine cargo planes; his main mission is to get from point A to point B on time and without delays. He may have to penetrate some weather and does his checklist on the go. When the cargo door is closed, he spools up and starts to taxi. He lands on runways here and there that are far from ideal but for the most part they are the usual.



After 3 more years Joe Civ has 4500 TT and Joe mil has 1400 TT. Joe civ has learned how to survive in grossed out underpowered twins; and John mil has learned how to survive in the kill zone. He has mastered weapons systems, tactical navigation and long range planning. He also plans entire missions that involve multiple aircraft and ground units.



Joe Civ unable to get hired by a major goes to a regional and for 2 years sits as an FO. After 2 years upgrades to captain on a CRJ. Joe Mil transfers to tankers, goes through more training and pays his dues by flying all over the world supporting the aircraft he once flew. He practices landing the tanker at all kinds or fields an unlike the fighter, were his crew was in a plane next to him, he is now with a crew of 4 or 5. He has 4 years left on active duty and is looking to get out. Joe Civ is still at the regional and has around 6000 hours TT. John mil has around 2200. The years pass, and John Mil is ready to exit and Joe Civ after years of airlines not hiring is ready to move on. Joe Civ now has 7500 TT and John mil has 3000 TT. Both guys are in their early 30’s and are still close friends. Both apply to airlines and cargo.





Employers look at Joe Civ as an unknown. He has proven himself via his longevity and survival. He has not bent anything up, or slid off of runway, or run out of gas. They look at John Mil as a known. He went through a system that is well known and proven. They realize that he has less then half the time of Joe Civ, but know the training he has gone through was fast and furious. And, they are comfortable with him. Of course, letters of recommendation, personality, who you know, are all variables that have to be taken into account.