More UPS info

[pilotyip]

When they were hiring in 2007, UPS did not have a hard requirement for a degree.

Redefined competitive hiring minimums, if I remember right there was a big need for 747 experienced pilots and now a 1000 hr PIC in a 74 carried more weight than a little piece of paper of great of little value

 

[xjhawk]

18K please?, DA20 F/O starting is $35K, most make $40K first year. Tops out at $175/hr, this is low pay? Gross of $150K/yr is low pay? Don't think it is the pay, it is the non-sked thing, living on a cell phone at KYIP, most pilots are not cut out for this kind of work.

On the shortage, All the major airlines have the same 5000 resumes and applications, just like 1996 when they said they had 10,000 and there would never be shortage. Then came 1999, SWA dropped the 73 type needed to interview, UAL, NWA dropped this college degree thing in order to fill classes. True UPS, Fed Ex and SWA will never have a real storage, however they might redefine their "Competitive hiring mins"

You might be right, and then again I might be right. Only time knows the true answer. But we are already seeing it.

You must be mistaken of the persons point. I do not know any (ANY) regional that starts at $40k or ends up at $175K. That is the starting salary of an airline pilot. The days of anyone starting at a major right out of flight school (non military ) will never occur unless affirmative action gets worse. All majors and Nationals have thousands of applicants to choose from. I will agree with you on the lowering of minimums on all levels. But I see this as an HR ploy to get the "right" applicant for what their needs are. That is why I know of a few great pilots with thousands of hours of experience and plenty of PIC that applied at an airline that posted 4,000 total and 1000 pic but yet went on to hire pilots with no PIC.

A lot of things need to occur for a applicant to be hired. Internal recs, good resume, clean record, and lastly it seems-pilot experience. If experience was everything, then FedEx would not have released their study on their most desirable applicant. They want someone who is trainable so if you have greater than 10k hours. you are not in that category.

 

[pilotyip]

You must be mistaken of the persons point. I do not know any (ANY) regional that starts at $40k or ends up at $175K. That is the starting salary of an airline pilot. The days of anyone starting at a major right out of flight school (non military ) will never occur unless affirmative action gets worse. All majors and Nationals have thousands of applicants to choose from. I will agree with you on the lowering of minimums on all levels. But I see this as an HR ploy to get the "right" applicant for what their needs are. That is why I know of a few great pilots with thousands of hours of experience and plenty of PIC that applied at an airline that posted 4,000 total and 1000 pic but yet went on to hire pilots with no PIC.

A lot of things need to occur for a applicant to be hired. Internal recs, good resume, clean record, and lastly it seems-pilot experience. If experience was everything, then FedEx would not have released their study on their most desirable applicant. They want someone who is trainable so if you have greater than 10k hours. you are not in that category.

Oh! I thought you were referring to JUS where we are having trouble finding pilots. The pilot shortage is already here on the lower end

 

[igneousy2]

Unfortunately many places see you as a problem....ie low/no PIC compared to your total time. Unfortunately the RJ guy that has never flown anything bigger or never been out of the USA is better qualified to fly the MD-11 out of Hong Kong. This is what you get when companies have HR set the mins AND use computers to sort through the apps. This is what is happening at FEDEX. (Confirmed by a chief pilot). It is a total kick in the jimmies for many of us in the same or similar situation. 10000 hrs, 1700 PIC turbine (3500 total PIC) 5 type rating and international time and I am still less qualified than the RJ guy because his percent of PIC turbine to total time is better than mine. (Not a slam on the RJ captain I just don't think you are MORE qualified than me and many other guys that happened to get into the industry before you.)


Unfortunately that is the way it is. Maybe when the shortage (that will not ever happen) occurs the minimums will change.

That being said from what I have heard the FEDEX folks know that this is a problem and hopefully they will change the computer model used to select the apps.

Ever since the mid 80's when I started on this quest, it was pretty well known that you needed a 4-year degree to be comptetitive.

Geting in at the regional/135 level it was about Multi time.

At the major level it was about the amount of Multi-turbine-PIC time.

I was told by a senior Captain at American Airlines who had come up through the civilian ranks that once I got 1000 hours in anything, it was time to start looking to move onto something else bigger, faster, with more responsibility, until I got where I wanted to go.

Nothing has really changed in the last 25+ years.

 

[Flyer1015]

That is why I know of a few great pilots with thousands of hours of experience and plenty of PIC that applied at an airline that posted 4,000 total and 1000 pic but yet went on to hire pilots with no PIC.

Sir, that was changed without the website updating to reflect it on time. The internal change happened last November. Some got a whiff of it and applied even though it still showed 4000TT and 1000TPIC required. However, even then, it was already 4k total required and 1k TPIC preferred. It was only in February (I believe) that they updated the online job information to reflect the change of 4k total and 1Ktpic preferred. So I wouldn't say that this is a good example of HR using tricks or a ploy to hire the "right" candidate (read: minorities, females, etc). The "official" change to 4k total and 1k tpic preferred happened without it being updated promptly on the internet job posting.

 

[m80drvr]

18K please?, DA20 F/O starting is $35K, most make $40K first year. Tops out at $175/hr, this is low pay? Gross of $150K/yr is low pay? Don't think it is the pay, it is the non-sked thing, living on a cell phone at KYIP, most pilots are not cut out for this kind of work.

Hmmmm...I don't know many flight school grads that are on a DA 20 or other jet that make that much. I'm sure there are some but not many. Top ut pay is not what we were talking about, not sure how you missed this. Regardless of a pilot shortage, if a job was posted paying 175k you would have no shortage of applicants

On the shortage, All the major airlines have the same 5000 resumes and applications, just like 1996 when they said they had 10,000 and there would never be shortage. Then came 1999, SWA dropped the 73 type needed to interview, UAL, NWA dropped this college degree thing in order to fill classes. True UPS, Fed Ex and SWA will never have a real storage, however they might redefine their "Competitive hiring mins"

Great, the mins were dropped and they got more than enough applicants that were qualified for the job....Not a pilot shortage. Pilot shortage by definition would suggest a lack qualified pilots for a job......a 4 year dergee or a 73 type is not an indication of "qualified"..it is just a standard that an individual airline uses to weed out the thousands of apps that they have on file.

The truth sucks.....I probably have too much tile to be hired by Fedex....it sucks but thats the way it goes.

You might be right, and then again I might be right. Only time knows the true answer. But we are already seeing it.

You have that right....time will tell. Honestly I hope there is a huge shortage....maybe the commuters and for that matter the majors will finally pay pilots a wage that equals the responsibility pilots take on every day and not to mention the time we are not home with our wife and kids.

Good Luck to all

Drvr

 

[pilotyip]

If Avbug was still here we would scolded for using the term 'shortage", they will never be a shortage in his words, but there will be a hiring boom the likes of 1965, 1986, 1999

 

[PCL_128]

When they were hiring in 2007, UPS did not have a hard requirement for a degree.

True, but when I talked to them at an Air Inc. job fair that year, they said I shouldn't even bother handing in a resume until I had finished the degree. It wasn't a minimum in writing, but it was in practice.

 

[pilotyip]

True, but when I talked to them at an Air Inc. job fair that year, they said I shouldn't even bother handing in a resume until I had finished the degree. It wasn't a minimum in writing, but it was in practice.

Did you have any 74 PIC time?

 

[PCL_128]

Did you have any 74 PIC time?

Obviously not. But I don't think it would have mattered if I did. They had enough applicants at the time with widebody time that they could be that picky.