More potential Lear 85 delays?

[johnsonrod]

From what I have read, I think the LR85 will be a real winner, but talk about biting off more than you could chew... Bombardier sounds incompetent. Wonder what KR thinks about even more potential delays?

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...earjet-85-schedule-to-priority-review-402261/

 

[el raton]

From what I have read, I think the LR85 will be a real winner, but talk about biting off more than you could chew... Bombardier sounds incompetent. Wonder what KR thinks about even more potential delays?

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...earjet-85-schedule-to-priority-review-402261/

My guess is, more 300s which make the company more money.

 

[AeroBoy]

johnsonrod, I'm curious as to why you think the Lear 85 "will be a real winner." The 85 offers nearly the same specs as the Challenger 300, but in a smaller cabin. And with Bombardier heavily discounting CL300s as the 350 comes online, the price delta between the $18 million Lear 85 and the CL300 is pretty narrow. Not to mention that the CL300 is already certified and that Lear 85 approval is at least two years away. I truly don't understand why Bombardier doesn't cancel the Lear 85 and instead offer a de-contented CL 300–let's call it the CL250–at the Lear 85's $18 million price tag.

And if Kenn wants a midsize aircraft, wouldn't the Legacy 500 be a better choice over the Learjet 85? The Legacy 500 will be certified in the next few days, too.

I'm guessing that Kenn knew the Learjet 85 program was a mess and could never be certified anywhere close to Bombardier's timetable. IMO, Kenn knew he could dangle a big Lear 85 order in front of Bombardier to get more favorable terms in the Flexjet deal and then be able to contractually cancel these orders when the certification terms aren't met. I predict you'll never see a Lear 85 on property at Flex or Flight Options.

 

[rajflyboy]

The learjets are still the best small jets ever built

Its too bad most people would prefer to ride in a slow SUV type airplane in todays world

Speed used to be king. Now people prefer the bigger slow SUV

 

[jonjuan]

Its too bad

Lolololol............

 

[johnsonrod]

johnsonrod, I'm curious as to why you think the Lear 85 "will be a real winner." The 85 offers nearly the same specs as the Challenger 300, but in a smaller cabin. And with Bombardier heavily discounting CL300s as the 350 comes online, the price delta between the $18 million Lear 85 and the CL300 is pretty narrow. Not to mention that the CL300 is already certified and that Lear 85 approval is at least two years away. I truly don't understand why Bombardier doesn't cancel the Lear 85 and instead offer a de-contented CL 300?let's call it the CL250?at the Lear 85's $18 million price tag.

And if Kenn wants a midsize aircraft, wouldn't the Legacy 500 be a better choice over the Learjet 85? The Legacy 500 will be certified in the next few days, too.

I'm guessing that Kenn knew the Learjet 85 program was a mess and could never be certified anywhere close to Bombardier's timetable. IMO, Kenn knew he could dangle a big Lear 85 order in front of Bombardier to get more favorable terms in the Flexjet deal and then be able to contractually cancel these orders when the certification terms aren't met. I predict you'll never see a Lear 85 on property at Flex or Flight Options.

I don't disagree with you. It's all relative - for a Lear, the 85 seems impressive but its performance and price is close to that of a CL300. So, you make a good point. I am betting Ken is getting the Lear 85 at a big discount with the volume launch order but I could be wrong. I also think Bombardier is blowing these sales opportunities given its frequent development fumbling. Bombardier could generate more excitement in the airplane if it could keep to its development schedule.

I drive an ERJ and Embraer is all I really know professionally. I have been an advocate for the Legacy 500 for quite some time and am surprised that it hasn't been ordered yet in decent numbers given its "lowish" price point for that performance and the existing relationships established at both Netjets (Phenoms) and FLOPS (Legacy & Phenoms). No doubt price becomes the determining factor...

 

[rajflyboy]

Lolololol............

we are pilots not damn English majors.. and on top of that this is nothing but a message board and we ain't gettin graded on nottin

 

[AeroBoy]

johnsonrod, midsize market has taken a hit over the past few years and I think a lot of potential Legacy 500 buyers were scared off a bit by the fly-by-wire problems that cropped up early in the program. Now that this market segment is improving and Embraer is on the cusp of getting certification, it's likely that we'll see a swell of orders coming in for this airplane and its 450 sibling.

rajflyboy, when have the fractionals ever routinely operated aircraft at their max speeds? They fly at LRC for two main reasons: lower DOCs and more billable hours for clients. Flying at LRC is a win-win for the fractionals; flying at max cruise on the other hand is a lose-lose for them (higher costs and lower billable hours). The Citation Xs at NetJets or Flight Options have probably only hit Mach 0.92 once -- on a post-production test flight. Speed is a great selling point, but fractional shareowners will never see those speeds due to the higher operational costs. But cabin size can't be altered, so owners can't ever get short-changed on cabin size, unless they agree to be downgraded to a smaller aircraft, which they are compensated for with a reduction in billable hours.

 

[chainring]

From what I have read, I think the LR85 will be a real winner, but talk about biting off more than you could chew... Bombardier sounds incompetent. Wonder what KR thinks about even more potential delays?

Will give him more time before he starts canceling orders. He's never been much of a grower of companies. Look at Options. How many 4 to 10 plane fleets have we had. He gets some then after a handful he fizzles out.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

johnsonrod, midsize market has taken a hit over the past few years and I think a lot of potential Legacy 500 buyers were scared off a bit by the fly-by-wire problems that cropped up early in the program. Now that this market segment is improving and Embraer is on the cusp of getting certification, it's likely that we'll see a swell of orders coming in for this airplane and its 450 sibling.

rajflyboy, when have the fractionals ever routinely operated aircraft at their max speeds? They fly at LRC for two main reasons: lower DOCs and more billable hours for clients. Flying at LRC is a win-win for the fractionals; flying at max cruise on the other hand is a lose-lose for them (higher costs and lower billable hours). The Citation Xs at NetJets or Flight Options have probably only hit Mach 0.92 once -- on a post-production test flight. Speed is a great selling point, but fractional shareowners will never see those speeds due to the higher operational costs. But cabin size can't be altered, so owners can't ever get short-changed on cabin size, unless they agree to be downgraded to a smaller aircraft, which they are compensated for with a reduction in billable hours.

Flying at LRC?

We only fly at LRC on legs that it will allow us to go nonstop instead of making a fuel stop. We don't fly Mmo, but we fly pretty close to it.

We do fly slower on empty legs since it is all obout DOC on empty legs.

I have a good friend who is a X Capt at NJ. They fly .92 quite a bit.