More potential Lear 85 delays?

[BlueNose]

Thanks for the clarification on how NetJets operates aircraft re: high-speed cruise. But you're not likely to see that practiced at Flight Options.

Slowtation Capt corrected you once, maybe you missed it. Options X owners get max continuous thrust in cruise.

 

[AeroBoy]

Slowtation Capt corrected you once, maybe you missed it. Options X owners get max continuous thrust in cruise.

OK, I missed that. Now can someone please answer my question of why the nowhere close to certified Learjet 85 is better than the long-certified Challenger 300, especially when there is no real speed advantage to the Learjet 85?

 

[GooseHZ]

It's the Unions fault.

 

[el raton]

It's the Unions fault.

No, it's just part of KR's evil plan.

 

[jonjuan]

OK, I missed that. Now can someone please answer my question of why the nowhere close to certified Learjet 85 is better than the long-certified Challenger 300, especially when there is no real speed advantage to the Learjet 85?

The price delta is $5M.

 

[AeroBoy]

The price delta is $5M.

No, it's not. That's the list price, but Bombardier has been heavily discounting the Challenger 300, and the current price delta is only about $2 million. Besides, when have the fractionals ever paid list price for an airplane, especially when they order them in the tens or hundreds at a time?

 

[surveypilot]

Just because the fractional is not paying list price, does not mean the customers are not paying list price.

 

[SDCFI]

No, it's not. That's the list price, but Bombardier has been heavily discounting the Challenger 300, and the current price delta is only about $2 million. Besides, when have the fractionals ever paid list price for an airplane, especially when they order them in the tens or hundreds at a time?

By that logic they won't be paying list for the 85 either so the price delta would still be the same or close to 5M. And I'm sure Flexjet got a nice discount for being the launch customer plus the additional 30 orders bringing the total to 60.

If the 85 will do most of what the 300 does (transcon and HI) for less money than why not? We all know how cheap some of these rich people can be.

 

[jonjuan]

By that logic they won't be paying list for the 85 either so the price delta would still be the same or close to 5M. And I'm sure Flexjet got a nice discount for being the launch customer plus the additional 30 orders bringing the total to 60.

If the 85 will do most of what the 300 does (transcon and HI) for less money than why not? We all know how cheap some of these rich people can be.

Bingo-love aeroboyz's logic made to fit his argument.

 

[t-bone]

If the 85 will do most of what the 300 does (transcon and HI) for less money than why not? We all know how cheap some of these rich people can be.

I've never heard our passengers use price as the determining factor between the 10 and 300. It's more often a matter of comfort. "If it's just me, I'll take the citation. If I'm with my family, I want the bigger cabin and will take the 300". Both do the same job, the 10 is cheaper, but these people don't want want to be stuffed into a sardine can for 5+ hours.

Btw, XO just took delivery of a new 300 and 4 guys, including 3 new-hires, started initial training yesterday. If KR is as close as he says he is to buying all our 300s and "kicking their pilots to the curb" I sure hope he tells XO mgmt soon because they sure aren't operating in a way that's consistent with fleet contraction. Me thinks KR is just stirring the flops/flex pot and there is a surprisingly large number of guys that fall for it.

 

[X-rated]

If the 85 will do most of what the 300 does (transcon and HI) for less money than why not? We all know how cheap some of these rich people can be.

Why would Bombardier prefer to make less money? That doesn't make sense.

There are only so many resources at Bombardier. If you were in charge, would you commit those resources to a plane that only generates in the 17M per copy range and competes directly with the higher profit 300/350, or would you allocate those resources to the 7000/8000 program which will bring in 70M per copy? The Lear 85 will rightfully take a backseat for the foreseeable future.

 

[SDCFI]

Why would Bombardier prefer to make less money? That doesn't make sense.

There are only so many resources at Bombardier. If you were in charge, would you commit those resources to a plane that only generates in the 17M per copy range and competes directly with the higher profit 300/350, or would you allocate those resources to the 7000/8000 program which will bring in 70M per copy? The Lear 85 will rightfully take a backseat for the foreseeable future.

Because now that the 60 is going away there is a niche to fill in the "midsize" category for Bombardier. Cessna has the Latitude/Longitude and Embraer has the Legacy 450/500. There is no current production model between the 75 and the 300 and that is a huge price gap. The 85 will certainly siphon some customers from the 300, I believe it has happened already at Flexjet but that's better than them going to a different brand/provider for their needs.

 

[squawk]

We all know how cheap some of these rich people can be.

Yes, those Richtards will steal the pennies from a dead man's eyes.
YGTBSM

 

[gret]

Just because the fractional is not paying list price, does not mean the customers are not paying list price.

You are a smart person and know what is really happening.

When you add up the price paid by each owner for their fractional interest in an a/c, it exceeds list.

Fractional providers only make a profit when they are selling pieces of an a/c...impossible to make any dough by operating the a/c given the economics of flying a jet. Many have tried...more have failed!

 

[jonjuan]

You are a smart person and know what is really happening.

When you add up the price paid by each owner for their fractional interest in an a/c, it exceeds list.

Fractional providers only make a profit when they are selling pieces of an a/c...impossible to make any dough by operating the a/c given the economics of flying a jet. Many have tried...more have failed!

Gee, thanks, Dad.