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More Boyd-isms for Delta and RJs...

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Revenue management is very difficult and can fluctuate almost daily.

If a market can support 200 passengers a day it may be foolish to put 2 MD-80's or 737's on it. A mix of a CRJ and a narrowbody may be better. And, as pointed out earlier, the narrowbody during the day for the business traveler with the CRJ for a late flight sounds ideal.

Then there is the next leg or 2 after. If the plane is full on the next leg, is it o.k. to have it 60% on this leg? Even with 2 or 3 CRJ's full on both legs, you would lose revenue on the next leg with less capacity on it. Particularly if the next leg has high yields. It's a balancing act. When you can keep the average daily narrowbody loadfactor, and yield, up the less than 70 seaters lose money.

The ballgame will change with 70-110 seaters. Perhaps only slightly, but the balance of power will significantly shift. International routes with labor making 20% less will again subsidize operations on domestic routes to fend off LCCs and other legacy competitors. We will see some of the same strategies we saw in the mid 1990's. But it will be different with the bigger feed (or smaller mainline E-jets).

We, the LCC's, are seeing the calm before the storm. Hub operations appear to be under great pressure with proposed cuts. The next year will be good for LCC's. But the legacies are just preparing the battlespace before they get funding for, buy, and deploy the new E-jets.
 
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Return of the Turboprop?

It is true what has been said about large aircraft vs. Rj's vs. turboprops.

The customer wants the big airplane, and high frequency and low price. This formula only works in about 20% of the total city pairs in the US.

There are some routes that cannot be flown profitably by an RJ. Not with these fuel prices. Sometime in the near future, some operator is going to go back into an aircraft like the Q-400 big time and with high fuel prices this will be the airplane to beat.

Do customers really like turboprops, No, but they will ride on them if the price is right. If you put an Rj up against a Q-400 and sell the Q-400 ticket for $100.00 less you will fill the Q-400 up. The pax will grumble but they will get on. Price is key and with a very much lower fuel burn the Q-400 class of turboprop can do some jobs well that the Rj cannot.

Industry managment has over done the RJ, just like they have over-hubbed the nation. A quality turboprop, if there really is such a thing, is what the industry needs on many short routes.
 
ASADFW7 said:
Okay I know this is a theme that comes up over and over again. I fly an CRJ however I do not make the business plan for the company I am employed by or fly under. I flew the Brasilia before the CRJ, and the industry shift to CRJ's or Erj was not the downfall of mainline. I am tired of people blaming the regionals for the downfall of mainline. It reads like the RJDC crap and save mainline crap misses the point, whatever end of the stick you are holding, right now there is a good chance the crap is going to rub off on you. Either mainline or the regionals, we all are trying to make a living and not at the expense of each other. However, in most cases we speak publicly out of one side of our mouth about solidarity, however the public forum that is anonymous like this we cut each other down to the bone. It is just sad to see. Attack me as you want to, most of these posts are not debate or sharing information any more, they are avenues to vent and be frustrated. Blame not responsibility, reaction not pro-action, we are all bleeding and the last time I look it is all the same color of red.

Good post. I think a lot of the concern focuses on the inflated expectations of the RJ and the potential for profit. I agree that the "frequency" theme was way overused in the latter 90s to justify hundreds of orders. Indy Air figured out that high frequency doesn't mean profit in this environment. It's certainly not anyone's fault but management - but most of them are long gone with their golden parachutes (i.e., Fred Reid and Leo).

Times have changed - simple as that. With the advent of the LCC model, the old hub-and-spoke and RJ-frequency models don't work as well. From an international feed perspective, the hub-and-spoke does work, but the LCCs have changed a lot of the rules. With such low fares on LCC-competitive routes, you just can't spread the low revenue well over the 50 seats and still squeek out a profit - its very difficult. Midway, Indy Air and AirTran (using Air Wisconsin CRJs) figured this out pretty quickly....
 
Texx said:
I thought you were a smart guy and could figure this one out. It's called "FF" program. That is the only reason DAL did it for those FF that want to take the family to Disney, and not go through ATL, on their miles.

YGTBSM. Thanks for the good laugh.
 
A few thoughts-

1. Delta bought too many RJ's. There you go, I concede that point. This is especially evident on routes were AirTran is operating five 717's against ASA's numerous RJ's. Five flights is enough choice for travelers to choose AT over DAL, especially with the possibility to upgrade to Buisiness class.

2. Business travelers b$tch about everything. There is a direct positive correlation between medallion status and b$tching. Furthermore, you will not convinve me that a seat on the 70 out west is better or worse compared to both SWA and FRNT. All three are one class configuration! The only difference is when UAL and AA get involved.

3. The same people that tell you they are loyal DAL patrons are the same people that will go to Priceline and buy the cheapest ticket - then they will b$tch about the service they got on that darned RJ!

4. (Follow-up to #2) A big reason why the general public thinks the RJ is a small tube is...BECAUSE IT IS! They all are! You want 747 service to Elko, NV? No problem, tickets start at $1700. Until they are willing to pay that, RJ service stays (or in Elko's case, the E-120).

5. (Follow-up to #4) The 737-800 coach seats are the most uncomfortable seats I have ever been in - even more so than a college lecture hall. People don't complain about these seats because they are distracted with a cheap form of IFE. Put an IFE system on the RJ's and I would be willing to bet my job that complaints would decrease some. Furthermore, put power adapters in the seats for laptops and even the loathsome business traveler may b$tch a little less - but I doubt it.
 
DrunkIrishman said:
A few thoughts-

1. Delta bought too many RJ's. There you go, I concede that point. This is especially evident on routes were AirTran is operating five 717's against ASA's numerous RJ's. Five flights is enough choice for travelers to choose AT over DAL, especially with the possibility to upgrade to Buisiness class.

2. Business travelers b$tch about everything. There is a direct positive correlation between medallion status and b$tching. Furthermore, you will not convinve me that a seat on the 70 out west is better or worse compared to both SWA and FRNT. All three are one class configuration! The only difference is when UAL and AA get involved.

3. The same people that tell you they are loyal DAL patrons are the same people that will go to Priceline and buy the cheapest ticket - then they will b$tch about the service they got on that darned RJ!

4. (Follow-up to #2) A big reason why the general public thinks the RJ is a small tube is...BECAUSE IT IS! They all are! You want 747 service to Elko, NV? No problem, tickets start at $1700. Until they are willing to pay that, RJ service stays (or in Elko's case, the E-120).

5. (Follow-up to #4) The 737-800 coach seats are the most uncomfortable seats I have ever been in - even more so than a college lecture hall. People don't complain about these seats because they are distracted with a cheap form of IFE. Put an IFE system on the RJ's and I would be willing to bet my job that complaints would decrease some. Furthermore, put power adapters in the seats for laptops and even the loathsome business traveler may b$tch a little less - but I doubt it.

I like your number 5. That sounds like a great idea, except you as a pilot will have to pay for it, just like we have at mainline. The Jetblue 100 seat rates (like the future 100 seat rates at Delta) are lower to pay for IFE on those birds (at this time no IFE on any mainline plane at DL except Song). If you want them on 50 or 70 seaters, you will have to take a huge pay cut. Is it worth it now?


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
GL-

The IFE I was referring to are on the 737-800's, 767's, 777's, MD-90's. Of course the 777 is the best with one in every seat. As far as a pay cut, I negotiate rates of pay to fly 'em not to equip 'em. Hold your head in shame if you accept the E-190 pay rates that were offered. Those are bad, even for us lowly regional folks.

Fur.Again-

Lighten up Francis.
 
DrunkIrishman said:
GL-

The IFE I was referring to are on the 737-800's, 767's, 777's, MD-90's. Of course the 777 is the best with one in every seat. As far as a pay cut, I negotiate rates of pay to fly 'em not to equip 'em. Hold your head in shame if you accept the E-190 pay rates that were offered. Those are bad, even for us lowly regional folks.

Fur.Again-

Lighten up Francis.

I think DL will negotiate a bit for the 100 seater, from what I have heard from 4th floor people. I have also heard the 100 seater COULD be the 737-600. The rates would have to go up if that is the case.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
People might complain about the Q-400 as when they saw it from the terminal, but once they get on it they wont anymore. No comparison, tons more space in the Dash, and the kicker is up to 500nm stage length it can fly within 10 min. of an RJ
 

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