More Boyd-isms for Delta and RJs...

[RJ Bum]

disregard

 

[Reebo]

A few thoughts-


5. (Follow-up to #4) The 737-800 coach seats are the most uncomfortable seats I have ever been in - even more so than a college lecture hall. People don't complain about these seats because they are distracted with a cheap form of IFE. Put an IFE system on the RJ's and I would be willing to bet my job that complaints would decrease some. Furthermore, put power adapters in the seats for laptops and even the loathsome business traveler may b$tch a little less - but I doubt it.

Great post with excellent points! In the case of a 50 seat ERJ I think the extra weight of IFE would limit the aircraft to less than 50 pax. Air Canada now has the CRJ-705 wich is a -900 configured for around 70 seats. IFE might work on that aircraft.

 

[General Lee]

Great post with excellent points! In the case of a 50 seat ERJ I think the extra weight of IFE would limit the aircraft to less than 50 pax. Air Canada now has the CRJ-705 wich is a -900 configured for around 70 seats. IFE might work on that aircraft.

Yes, but can that CRJ-705 carry all of the bags? Bring on the IFE, leave the bags!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Reebo]

Yes, but can that CRJ-705 carry all of the bags? Bring on the IFE, leave the bags!


Bye Bye--General Lee

Good question! Not sure of the payload capability of the CRJ-705.

 

[AlbieF15]

...the return of service...it would be nice result of all this pain....

2-3 FAs also makes like easier on the pax. A 70 seaters with one guy/gal getting drinks on a full flight leaves everyone frazzled and frustrated. A perk to putting the MD88 on the same route is the extra help and better service...

 

[CheapFlyer]

A 70 seaters with one guy/gal getting drinks on a full flight leaves everyone frazzled and frustrated.

The 70 seaters already have 2 flight attendants.

Maybe you should review your Part 121 FAR's....

-CF

 

[AlbieF15]

...well...maybe I should...but I don't need a working knowledge of that section as I don't fly with FAs at my airline (FDX) or in my ANG unit. My wife also has expressly forbidden me trying to bring one along in our Navion....

I usually fly Pinnacle or ASA with the 45-55 seat set-up so I didn't realize the 70 seaters had two. My bad....

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Albie-

You must have one FA for every 50 seats. The CRJ has only 50 seats so it only needs one; whereas, the CR7 has more than 50 but less than 100 so it needs only two FA's.

I am curious if anyone on this board knows what an IFE system for the RJ's would weigh. It just don't think it would weigh that much with modern technology. In fact, I would think that the FAA required AFM paperwork in the cockpit would weigh more.;-)

 

[Pat Fabin]

Boeing envy?

General,

Why do the 100seat rates 'need to go up' if its going to a Boeing airplane, rather than an Embraer? The rates need to go up regardless of the aircraft type so we don't set a pathetic precedent for this industry. I was hoping the JB E190 rate would be an temporary low-light but if we sign something similar into our contract, get ready for the new industry standard. And if we cave on scope, we'll never have another new-hire class again at Delta.

I don't know about you, but most of the guys I've flown with lately on the -800 and in the lounges are ready to make a stand for this profession that we love. If we get contract terms imposed on us, so be it...but there's know way I'm going to slit my own throat by accepting concessions of this type.

-Pat

 

[jehtplane]

Okay I know this is a theme that comes up over and over again. I fly an CRJ however I do not make the business plan for the company I am employed by or fly under. I flew the Brasilia before the CRJ, and the industry shift to CRJ's or Erj was not the downfall of mainline. I am tired of people blaming the regionals for the downfall of mainline. It reads like the RJDC crap and save mainline crap misses the point, whatever end of the stick you are holding, right now there is a good chance the crap is going to rub off on you. Either mainline or the regionals, we all are trying to make a living and not at the expense of each other. However, in most cases we speak publicly out of one side of our mouth about solidarity, however the public forum that is anonymous like this we cut each other down to the bone. It is just sad to see. Attack me as you want to, most of these posts are not debate or sharing information any more, they are avenues to vent and be frustrated. Blame not responsibility, reaction not pro-action, we are all bleeding and the last time I look it is all the same color of red.

well said!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jehtplane]

GL-

The IFE I was referring to are on the 737-800's, 767's, 777's, MD-90's. Of course the 777 is the best with one in every seat. As far as a pay cut, I negotiate rates of pay to fly 'em not to equip 'em. Hold your head in shame if you accept the E-190 pay rates that were offered. Those are bad, even for us lowly regional folks.

Fur.Again-

Lighten up Francis.

Exactly, we fly the airframes, how many seats and what equipment is put in them is up to management. Like our 40 seaters, management wanted to negotiate a pay rate for our 40 seaters, we said no, how many seats they decide to put in the same airframe is up to management

 

[jehtplane]

Yes, but can that CRJ-705 carry all of the bags? Bring on the IFE, leave the bags!


Bye Bye--General Lee

Why not?

 

[General Lee]

General,

Why do the 100seat rates 'need to go up' if its going to a Boeing airplane, rather than an Embraer? The rates need to go up regardless of the aircraft type so we don't set a pathetic precedent for this industry. I was hoping the JB E190 rate would be an temporary low-light but if we sign something similar into our contract, get ready for the new industry standard. And if we cave on scope, we'll never have another new-hire class again at Delta.

I don't know about you, but most of the guys I've flown with lately on the -800 and in the lounges are ready to make a stand for this profession that we love. If we get contract terms imposed on us, so be it...but there's know way I'm going to slit my own throat by accepting concessions of this type.

-Pat

I agree with you Pat. We do need to try to stand up to this. Especially scope. It looks like the NW guys will stand up for everything 70 seats and up. We probably lost the 70 round, but 79 seats is next. Here is the NW quote from the NW ALPA chair:



"McClain said pilots will have to sacrifice to keep Northwest flying. But on the key issue of who flies some of Northwest's mid-sized jets, an agreement could be elusive. The pilots contract says that all planes with 70 or more seats must be flown by Northwest pilots, while Northwest has long sought to give more of that flying to its regional carriers, where pilots earn less.

"I don't see how we go there," McClain said. He said the union is open to discussing lower pay for flying smaller jets, but they would still have to be Northwest pilots.

"We're not just going to walk away from our job protections," he said."





Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[spinproof]

My crystal ball says.....

Dal will increase International while decreasing domestic? Hardly... What really will happen is this...International will be increased with a Latin American, European, Mediteranean,and East Asiain push.(and if NWA continues to shrink look for more aggressive flying out of Utah!)

Comair will be stappled. Although they will be smaller.They will fly E-190's for "B" rates. Concentrating on higher volume domestic feed and PTP. No DALPA pilots furloughed as they will retain seniority and continue to fly in integrated fleet while the "Mad Dogs" and certain 73's are phased out!
Scope will be relaxed and DALPA agrees to it because they will negoiate to keep most "rigs" in tact with slight mods.


5year LOA will accomplish this as both MEC's told take it or leave it to the Judge!!!!! The "Judge" is an unknown so everybody takes it! Better the devil you know than the one you don't!

Caveat Emptor

 

[Pat Fabin]

cracked crystal ball

Spinproof,

Do you really think Delta management wants an even larger pilot group with more leverage (DAL+CMR)? Never gonna happen....too many management jobs lost when you merge. :wink:

-Pat

 

[RJ Bum]

Staple to what?? DAL pilots will agree on a pay scale for the 79-100 that's below current Comair pay scales and in turn seal the fate of Comair. The 50 seat segment will shrink and Comair will soon be phased out.

 

[CheapFlyer]

Spinproof,

Do you really think Delta management wants an even larger pilot group with more leverage (DAL+CMR)? Never gonna happen....too many management jobs lost when you merge. :wink:

-Pat

That brings up a good point Pat.

Isn't the whole point of bankruptcy to save money? Would combining dozens of management positions save the company money? Would combining all flight and ground operations (dispatchers, crew scheduling etc.) save money? Would scope issues be realized? Would pay issues be [mostly] realized?

I just wish the bankruptcy judge could see thru the anti-labor tatics of todays airline management and see how much money is wasted on all their multiple alter-ego airlines.

-CF

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I think combining Comair and DAL pilot lists is a non-starter. This type of thinking was possible in the '90s, but not now. When big labor starting flexing muscle it taught manangement a lesson they will not forget. They probably teach about it in MBA school now.

As it is now Delta gets to play Comair against other regionals and mainline for new jets and wages. There is always a threat that mainline's or Comair's flying will be reduced and moved somewhere else. Despite the increased costs, long term labor savings and lower risk make up for it. It makes Delta almost strike proof and gives them more options. That's why ASA and Comair routes overlap so much.

Not saying I like it, but management wants to keep mechanisms in place to prevent labor from getting the upper hand again. I'm not sure the BK judge has any say in it at all. He/She only approves and disapproves things. If creditors were to file a reorg plan that combined the two then maybe it would be considered.

 

[theo]

I think combining Comair and DAL pilot lists is a non-starter. This type of thinking was possible in the '90s, but not now. When big labor starting flexing muscle it taught manangement a lesson they will not forget. They probably teach about it in MBA school now.

As it is now Delta gets to play Comair against other regionals and mainline for new jets and wages. There is always a threat that mainline's or Comair's flying will be reduced and moved somewhere else. Despite the increased costs, long term labor savings and lower risk make up for it. It makes Delta almost strike proof and gives them more options. That's why ASA and Comair routes overlap so much.

Not saying I like it, but management wants to keep mechanisms in place to prevent labor from getting the upper hand again. I'm not sure the BK judge has any say in it at all. He/She only approves and disapproves things. If creditors were to file a reorg plan that combined the two then maybe it would be considered.

Just curious...if labor had the upper hand would the airlines be making money now? Would all of these bankruptcy filings go away? I am curious how those who want to blame all of these problems on management think having labor in a stronger position will improve the industry and make it successful?

 

[Tomct]

imp:flyboeingjets...while some of your comments may be true, there is NO ONE that could cover the flying that ASA does in ATL. A strike by us would KILL big D! Who know's what is going to happen, but that is where ONE pilot group still holds the upper hand! So long as we get these new "shiny jet syndrome" guys in line!