More ALPA hypocrisy

[JoeMerchant]

In 2000 and 2004, ALPA supported the Democratic candidate and opposed Bush. Ostensibly because Bush would be anti-labor. Now, Bush is allowing a strike to go on that ALPA does not support. Is ALPA "anti-labor"?

IRONIC???

Bush 1 allows the Eastern strike. Bush 2 allows this NWA AMFA strike. Clinton orders the American pilots back to work.

IRONIC????

 

[PBRstreetgang]

In 2000 and 2004, ALPA supported the Democratic candidate and opposed Bush. Ostensibly because Bush would be anti-labor. Now, Bush is allowing a strike to go on that ALPA does not support. Is ALPA "anti-labor"?

IRONIC???

Bush 1 allows the Eastern strike. Bush 2 allows this NWA AMFA strike. Clinton orders the American pilots back to work.

IRONIC????

OHHHH,
Bush I,II and lorenzo, that fun loving bunch have been hard on the airplane bidness.
PBR

 

[dixieflyer]

Excellent point! Seems our ALPA leadership is slow to remember those facts and quick to endorse who ever the Dems nominate.

 

[AA717driver]

Not ironic, just people with their heads in the sand when it comes to politicians.

EAL was small enough to be expendable. NWA is the same. AA (or UA or DAL) at the time was big enough to cause a serious impact.

Great post. Show me a labor union today that really has its member's interests at heart (other than AMFA).TC

 

[TonyC]

In 2000 and 2004, ALPA supported the Democratic candidate and opposed Bush. Ostensibly because Bush would be anti-labor. Now, Bush is allowing a strike to go on that ALPA does not support. Is ALPA "anti-labor"?

IRONIC???

Bush 1 allows the Eastern strike. Bush 2 allows this NWA AMFA strike. Clinton orders the American pilots back to work.

IRONIC????

Ironic, yes. Hypocritical, no.

ALPA must choose the course of action that is in the best interest of its members. Now, whether you and I agree on what exactly that action is, the truth of the matter is NWA ALPA decided based opon the best available information and the preservation of NWA ALPA jobs as its ultimate goal.

It is indeed ironic that the chosen course excludes a sympathy strike at this juncture, but it is in no way hypocritical.



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[JoeMerchant]

Ironic, yes. Hypocritical, no.

ALPA must choose the course of action that is in the best interest of its members. Now, whether you and I agree on what exactly that action is, the truth of the matter is NWA ALPA decided based opon the best available information and the preservation of NWA ALPA jobs as its ultimate goal.

It is indeed ironic that the chosen course excludes a sympathy strike at this juncture, but it is in no way hypocritical.

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I don't know about that Tony. My dictionary says that hypocrisy is "feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not". I don't understand how ALPA can tell me not to vote for Bush because he is "anti-labor", while Bush allows a strike to continue that ALPA does not support. Sounds hypocritical to me.

ALPA could be arrested for impersonating a trade union.

Joe

 

[TonyC]

I don't understand how ALPA can tell me not to vote for Bush because he is "anti-labor", while Bush allows a strike to continue that ALPA does not support.

Nobody can predict how the President will react to every possible scenario. Of the two candidates, ALPA surmised (correctly, I believe) that President Bush would be less sympathetic to a labor union that President Kerry. Allowing AMFA to strike does not disprove that assessment.

Have you considered the possibility that NWA wanted AMFA to strike? (Why else do you think they would have asked for them to vote on a deal that would cost 53% of the jobs?) Have you considered the possibility that NWA lobbied the President to not interfere? I'm bettin' that NWA is bettin' that AMFA is gone for good now, that they've removed one union, and that the PFAA is next to go. I'm bettin' NWA convinced the President of the same, and that's why he's lettin' it go. He's not allowing the strike because he likes labor unions, that's for sure.


ALPA is acting to protect pilot jobs. You and I might disagree about what actions should be taken, but that's their motive - - protect pilot jobs. I see no hypocrisy there.



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[Green]

Yeah Bush is a real friend of labor. Good deductive work there JoeMerchant. You're quite the crack detective. I just wish my w-2's reflected the pro labor Bush agenda.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Have you considered the possibility that NWA wanted AMFA to strike? (Why else do you think they would have asked for them to vote on a deal that would cost 53% of the jobs?) Have you considered the possibility that NWA lobbied the President to not interfere? I'm bettin' that NWA is bettin' that AMFA is gone for good now, that they've removed one union, and that the PFAA is next to go. I'm bettin' NWA convinced the President of the same, and that's why he's lettin' it go. He's not allowing the strike because he likes labor unions, that's for sure.


ALPA is acting to protect pilot jobs. You and I might disagree about what actions should be taken, but that's their motive - - protect pilot jobs. I see no hypocrisy there.
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Tony, your missing the point. If the reason Bush is allowing this stike is to defeat labor and if NWA management is using this to defeat labor, shouldn't ALPA and AFA support AMFA? If this is truly an "anti-labor" move, shouldn't ALL of labor fight it? If not, how can you really say that ALPA is "pro-labor"?

Joe

 

[Toecutter]

Bush 1 allowed the EAL strike because thats what Frank wanted. He wanted to bust the Unions and continue his Scab empire by destroying Eastern and growing Continental. The EAL pilots wanted Bush to force them back to work so that they could show that they supported the mechanics strike, but keep the airline running. The president doesn't just make the strikers go back to work, but set up a PEB. ITs a blue ribbon panel that the President appoints to resolve the contract ASAP. Isn't that want everybody wants anyway? A fair contract. Bush 1 turned his back on EAL, hence the term BUSHWACKED. Clinton did what was best for American. He set up a PEB, and the contract was settled. American is still here today. Bush 2 has turned his back on the NWA mechanics. Just what NWA wanted. A chance to bust a union. NWA has got em by the balls. There will be no happy ending on this one. The reason the other unions will not support the mechanics is because they remember what happened at EAL and they know that a Bush is a Bush. Lowering the standard of living for the middle class and putting more money in the pockets of the big wigs. Don't worry, we'll all be working for Wal Mart someday.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Yeah Bush is a real friend of labor. Good deductive work there JoeMerchant. You're quite the crack detective. I just wish my w-2's reflected the pro labor Bush agenda.

But ALPA is??? Shouldn't ALPA be supporting "labor"??? I won't argue that Bush isn't pro-union, but how can everyone say that ALPA is in this case??? ALPA is showing it's true colors once again.

 

[Green]

Because NWA Alpa would be unwise to risk putting thousands of their pilots permanently out of a job in order to try and save jobs at another union. It's really not that complicated. Alpa surmised that NWA could not financially weather a systemwide strike and chose to save their battle for a future date. Maybe a little weak but definitely not "anti labor."

 

[JoeMerchant]

Bush 1 allowed the EAL strike because thats what Frank wanted. He wanted to bust the Unions and continue his Scab empire by destroying Eastern and growing Continental. The EAL pilots wanted Bush to force them back to work so that they could show that they supported the mechanics strike, but keep the airline running. The president doesn't just make the strikers go back to work, but set up a PEB. ITs a blue ribbon panel that the President appoints to resolve the contract ASAP. Isn't that want everybody wants anyway? A fair contract. Bush 1 turned his back on EAL, hence the term BUSHWACKED. Clinton did what was best for American. He set up a PEB, and the contract was settled. American is still here today. Bush 2 has turned his back on the NWA mechanics. Just what NWA wanted. A chance to bust a union. NWA has got em by the balls. There will be no happy ending on this one.

OK, then why doesn't ALPA show some solidarity with AMFA? If this is a war against labor, wouldn't it be prudent for labor to show solidarity???

 

[TonyC]

OK, then why doesn't ALPA show some solidarity with AMFA? If this is a war against labor, wouldn't it be prudent for labor to show solidarity???

ALPA's charter is not to support "labor," it's to support PILOTS. If ALPA saw this as a way to further the interests of pilots, I feel certain it would. However, it would seem that NWA ALPA feels that this is NOT a battle that pilots would win by engaging in a sympathy strike.


They can't just support every strike there is, regardless of the perceived risk or potential payoff. The priority for NWA ALPA is NWA pilots.




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[Toecutter]

Because they know they'll wind up just like Eastern. Either NWA will cease operations or it will be the biggest scab airline in history.

 

[JoeMerchant]

ALPA's charter is not to support "labor," it's to support PILOTS. If ALPA saw this as a way to further the interests of pilots, I feel certain it would. However, it would seem that NWA ALPA feels that this is NOT a battle that pilots would win by engaging in a sympathy strike.


They can't just support every strike there is, regardless of the perceived risk or potential payoff. The priority for NWA ALPA is NWA pilots.

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BINGO! The priority for NWA ALPA is NWA pilots The priority for DAL ALPA is DAL pilots, the priority for UAL ALPA is UAL pilots. And the beat goes on..... At least you are honest Tony, ALPA really isn't a trade union, rather it is a very loose association of self centered opportunists who whine when that same self centered opportunity is turned against themselves. What goes around comes around Tony.... maybe just maybe ALPA will learn that someday. I doubt it though.

Joe
10+ year ALPA volunteer who has seen the light....

 

[TonyC]

BINGO! The priority for NWA ALPA is NWA pilots The priority for DAL ALPA is DAL pilots, the priority for UAL ALPA is UAL pilots.

You say that like it's a bad thing!?!?





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[PCL_128]

BINGO! The priority for NWA ALPA is NWA pilots

Ummm, yeah. That's exactly the way it should be.

 

[GVFlyer]

In 2000 and 2004, ALPA supported the Democratic candidate and opposed Bush. Ostensibly because Bush would be anti-labor. Now, Bush is allowing a strike to go on that ALPA does not support. Is ALPA "anti-labor"?

IRONIC???

Bush 1 allows the Eastern strike. Bush 2 allows this NWA AMFA strike. Clinton orders the American pilots back to work.

IRONIC????

Excellent observation, objective, devoid of emotional bias and empirical.

GV

 

[regionaltard]

But ALPA is??? Shouldn't ALPA be supporting "labor"???

Not at the expense of "pilots." Shutting Northwest down would be pointless.

 

[DashTrash400]

If ALPA is interested in looking after only pilot interests, and all the other labor unions go to hell, the shrewd thing to do would've been to *support* Bush in '04. He seems to have no love lost for unions, but I'll bet he'd fall all over himself to show support for any union that jumped on the miniscule "Labor for W'04" bandwagon. He was rather vocal about the support from the firefighter's union. Think *they* have some decent pull in Washington right bout now?

 

[100LL... Again!]

The "labor movement" is being taken to the woodshed by market forces. This is bacause it lost track of its real purpose and became a means of extorting ever higher compensation for ever increasingly mediocre work. If the labor movement grows up, it will recover from this and in the end probably be better of.

 

[dogg]

You say that like it's a bad thing!?!?





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It is only a bad thing if you claim to be a union..... The problem with modern day ALPA is that it claims solidarity only when it suits its purpose....

 

[bman]

ALPA suxs and Unoins in this country are a massive joke they have little sway or power.

NWA ALPA looked at this situation and realized it was a lose lose for the AMFA guy. Hell the AMFA even realizes this is a lose lose. NWA management has decided what they are going to do and nothing was going to stop them. They had been planning for it for nearly two years prior. They had the FAA sign off on it the had Bush sign off on it. It was a done deal!

It would have been insane for NWA ALPA to try and get involved.

This is the sad state of our industry and labor in America in general.

 

[castle bravo]

NWA management has decided what they are going to do and nothing was going to stop them. They had been planning for it for nearly two years prior. They had the FAA sign off on it the had Bush sign off on it. It was a done deal!




Too bad NWA management didn't "plan" as well when it came to their brilliant and masterful (nonexistent) fuel hedging strategy.

Quite an about face for W who proclaimed during his first term that there would'nt be any airline strikes under his watch.

 

[bman]

CB

while I might agree that their fleet age and fuel hedging plan may have been inadequate, but let's face it this ain't about fuel hedging. No company has 100% of their fuel hedged and with oil pushing 70/ barrel EVERYONE is feeling the pain.

This is plainly the fault of the current administrations actions. Anyone who says otherwise is DELUSIONAL! They have done more to promote instability in the world than anything any terrorist could have done. The markets don't respond well to all of the turmoil and the only people who are profiting are Bush's cronies in the oil industry (who have coincidentaly seen record profits and prosperity) while our industry and its employees have seen their wages errode and their jobs "outsourced". Not unlike most labor in america. Wanna know whose profiting from all of this spend some time in Dubai. The arabs aren't over here starving nor is their general pop. inturmoil. They are building islands in the Gulf in the shape of vegetation.

Go W!! Four more years! For more years!

 

[Deli Guy]

I think that had we done nothing in the mid east after 9-11 our situation in reguards to oil would be the same or worse. Had we shown no resolve, Al Quiada (how do you spell that?) would have run the royal family out of Saudi and would have exerted more damaging oil restrictions on the west (great satan) My experience in Dudai was that there was always great affluance there--way before 9-11.
In the case of AMFA, did they not know who was in office? Did they wisely or unwisely push on with a strategy that was going to work with this administration. When NWA Alpa went to AMFA 2 years ago and said "guys, your plan is whacked, we need a combined strategy. Bush is in office and that needs to be part of a bigger picture. Lets get all the unions together at NWA and make this work." AMFA told NWA alpa not only to f#$% themselves, but to f#$% the iguana they rode in on. AMFA then went on to make statements about wanting $100,000 a year for its mechanics. What was NWA Alpa to do?
If you were to compare this to war, It would be like one of the Generals in the battle (supposedly on your side) had gone mad and was actually complicating your battle plan worse than the actual enemy. The worse part was, there was no overall commander to appeal to because the Generals had lateral command. Now NWA Alpa is taking it in the shorts from people who do not really know what has happened. This only further erodes our solidarity and plays into "the evil baby eating republicans" hands.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Ahh yes - Blame Bush for your miserable failures. How easy, such instant gratification.

Sometimes I really wish it WAS Bush doing this to you, just because you so stupidly decide to blame it all on this administration.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Because NWA Alpa would be unwise to risk putting thousands of their pilots permanently out of a job in order to try and save jobs at another union. It's really not that complicated. Alpa surmised that NWA could not financially weather a systemwide strike and chose to save their battle for a future date. Maybe a little weak but definitely not "anti labor."

Exactly how would ALPA be risking those jobs? If NWA pilots supported the AMFA strike then NWA managment would have requested and most likely recieved a PEB. Mechs would still be working today and maybe just maybe NWA management might bargain a bit more realistically. Keep in mind that managment specifically asked the White House not to order a PEB. Another interesting tidbit is how they chose to discontinue the recent round of fare hikes started by the majority of other majors. Had they simply stayed in line with other carriers they'd be grossing another 10-50 per ticket. NWA management is more interested in busting unions than fixing revenue problems. They've lost a lot of money over the past several quarters but how much of that money was spent training and keeping scabs on the payroll? Months ago a news station showed an article about the NWA mech scabs in training down in TUS or somewhere in that vicinity. How much money was spent on hiring and training replacement FA's? How much of the losses are due to hiring replacement workers and keeping those scumbags on the payroll? You can't keep a workforce of 1000's waiting in the wings without spending some money. What if all of their financial losses of the past few quarters can be tied to those replacement workers? Sounds to me like NWA managment is simply living a lie. Too bad ALPA leadership isn't asking the tough questions.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

You say that like it's a bad thing!?!?





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One very simple concept, divide and conquer.
PBR
P.S. It's gonna be interesting when they come after the pilots though, and they will. Good luck D. Worthless, bet he will get tough then and rally ALPA around his job. $400k a year with a bottomless expense account makes a guy think funny.