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More ALPA hypocrisy

JoeMerchant

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In 2000 and 2004, ALPA supported the Democratic candidate and opposed Bush. Ostensibly because Bush would be anti-labor. Now, Bush is allowing a strike to go on that ALPA does not support. Is ALPA "anti-labor"?

IRONIC???

Bush 1 allows the Eastern strike. Bush 2 allows this NWA AMFA strike. Clinton orders the American pilots back to work.

IRONIC????
 
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PBRstreetgang

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JoeMerchant said:
In 2000 and 2004, ALPA supported the Democratic candidate and opposed Bush. Ostensibly because Bush would be anti-labor. Now, Bush is allowing a strike to go on that ALPA does not support. Is ALPA "anti-labor"?

IRONIC???

Bush 1 allows the Eastern strike. Bush 2 allows this NWA AMFA strike. Clinton orders the American pilots back to work.

IRONIC????
OHHHH,
Bush I,II and lorenzo, that fun loving bunch have been hard on the airplane bidness.
PBR
 

dixieflyer

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Excellent point! Seems our ALPA leadership is slow to remember those facts and quick to endorse who ever the Dems nominate.
 

AA717driver

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Not ironic, just people with their heads in the sand when it comes to politicians.

EAL was small enough to be expendable. NWA is the same. AA (or UA or DAL) at the time was big enough to cause a serious impact.

Great post. Show me a labor union today that really has its member's interests at heart (other than AMFA).TC
 

TonyC

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JoeMerchant said:
In 2000 and 2004, ALPA supported the Democratic candidate and opposed Bush. Ostensibly because Bush would be anti-labor. Now, Bush is allowing a strike to go on that ALPA does not support. Is ALPA "anti-labor"?

IRONIC???

Bush 1 allows the Eastern strike. Bush 2 allows this NWA AMFA strike. Clinton orders the American pilots back to work.

IRONIC????
Ironic, yes. Hypocritical, no.

ALPA must choose the course of action that is in the best interest of its members. Now, whether you and I agree on what exactly that action is, the truth of the matter is NWA ALPA decided based opon the best available information and the preservation of NWA ALPA jobs as its ultimate goal.

It is indeed ironic that the chosen course excludes a sympathy strike at this juncture, but it is in no way hypocritical.



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JoeMerchant

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TonyC said:
Ironic, yes. Hypocritical, no.

ALPA must choose the course of action that is in the best interest of its members. Now, whether you and I agree on what exactly that action is, the truth of the matter is NWA ALPA decided based opon the best available information and the preservation of NWA ALPA jobs as its ultimate goal.

It is indeed ironic that the chosen course excludes a sympathy strike at this juncture, but it is in no way hypocritical.

.

I don't know about that Tony. My dictionary says that hypocrisy is "feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not". I don't understand how ALPA can tell me not to vote for Bush because he is "anti-labor", while Bush allows a strike to continue that ALPA does not support. Sounds hypocritical to me.

ALPA could be arrested for impersonating a trade union.

Joe
 

TonyC

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JoeMerchant said:
I don't understand how ALPA can tell me not to vote for Bush because he is "anti-labor", while Bush allows a strike to continue that ALPA does not support.
Nobody can predict how the President will react to every possible scenario. Of the two candidates, ALPA surmised (correctly, I believe) that President Bush would be less sympathetic to a labor union that President Kerry. Allowing AMFA to strike does not disprove that assessment.

Have you considered the possibility that NWA wanted AMFA to strike? (Why else do you think they would have asked for them to vote on a deal that would cost 53% of the jobs?) Have you considered the possibility that NWA lobbied the President to not interfere? I'm bettin' that NWA is bettin' that AMFA is gone for good now, that they've removed one union, and that the PFAA is next to go. I'm bettin' NWA convinced the President of the same, and that's why he's lettin' it go. He's not allowing the strike because he likes labor unions, that's for sure.


ALPA is acting to protect pilot jobs. You and I might disagree about what actions should be taken, but that's their motive - - protect pilot jobs. I see no hypocrisy there.



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Green

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Yeah Bush is a real friend of labor. Good deductive work there JoeMerchant. You're quite the crack detective. I just wish my w-2's reflected the pro labor Bush agenda.
 

JoeMerchant

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TonyC said:
Have you considered the possibility that NWA wanted AMFA to strike? (Why else do you think they would have asked for them to vote on a deal that would cost 53% of the jobs?) Have you considered the possibility that NWA lobbied the President to not interfere? I'm bettin' that NWA is bettin' that AMFA is gone for good now, that they've removed one union, and that the PFAA is next to go. I'm bettin' NWA convinced the President of the same, and that's why he's lettin' it go. He's not allowing the strike because he likes labor unions, that's for sure.


ALPA is acting to protect pilot jobs. You and I might disagree about what actions should be taken, but that's their motive - - protect pilot jobs. I see no hypocrisy there.
.


Tony, your missing the point. If the reason Bush is allowing this stike is to defeat labor and if NWA management is using this to defeat labor, shouldn't ALPA and AFA support AMFA? If this is truly an "anti-labor" move, shouldn't ALL of labor fight it? If not, how can you really say that ALPA is "pro-labor"?

Joe
 

Toecutter

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Bush 1 allowed the EAL strike because thats what Frank wanted. He wanted to bust the Unions and continue his Scab empire by destroying Eastern and growing Continental. The EAL pilots wanted Bush to force them back to work so that they could show that they supported the mechanics strike, but keep the airline running. The president doesn't just make the strikers go back to work, but set up a PEB. ITs a blue ribbon panel that the President appoints to resolve the contract ASAP. Isn't that want everybody wants anyway? A fair contract. Bush 1 turned his back on EAL, hence the term BUSHWACKED. Clinton did what was best for American. He set up a PEB, and the contract was settled. American is still here today. Bush 2 has turned his back on the NWA mechanics. Just what NWA wanted. A chance to bust a union. NWA has got em by the balls. There will be no happy ending on this one. The reason the other unions will not support the mechanics is because they remember what happened at EAL and they know that a Bush is a Bush. Lowering the standard of living for the middle class and putting more money in the pockets of the big wigs. Don't worry, we'll all be working for Wal Mart someday.
 
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JoeMerchant

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Green said:
Yeah Bush is a real friend of labor. Good deductive work there JoeMerchant. You're quite the crack detective. I just wish my w-2's reflected the pro labor Bush agenda.

But ALPA is??? Shouldn't ALPA be supporting "labor"??? I won't argue that Bush isn't pro-union, but how can everyone say that ALPA is in this case??? ALPA is showing it's true colors once again.
 

Green

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Because NWA Alpa would be unwise to risk putting thousands of their pilots permanently out of a job in order to try and save jobs at another union. It's really not that complicated. Alpa surmised that NWA could not financially weather a systemwide strike and chose to save their battle for a future date. Maybe a little weak but definitely not "anti labor."
 

JoeMerchant

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Toecutter said:
Bush 1 allowed the EAL strike because thats what Frank wanted. He wanted to bust the Unions and continue his Scab empire by destroying Eastern and growing Continental. The EAL pilots wanted Bush to force them back to work so that they could show that they supported the mechanics strike, but keep the airline running. The president doesn't just make the strikers go back to work, but set up a PEB. ITs a blue ribbon panel that the President appoints to resolve the contract ASAP. Isn't that want everybody wants anyway? A fair contract. Bush 1 turned his back on EAL, hence the term BUSHWACKED. Clinton did what was best for American. He set up a PEB, and the contract was settled. American is still here today. Bush 2 has turned his back on the NWA mechanics. Just what NWA wanted. A chance to bust a union. NWA has got em by the balls. There will be no happy ending on this one.


OK, then why doesn't ALPA show some solidarity with AMFA? If this is a war against labor, wouldn't it be prudent for labor to show solidarity???
 

TonyC

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JoeMerchant said:
OK, then why doesn't ALPA show some solidarity with AMFA? If this is a war against labor, wouldn't it be prudent for labor to show solidarity???
ALPA's charter is not to support "labor," it's to support PILOTS. If ALPA saw this as a way to further the interests of pilots, I feel certain it would. However, it would seem that NWA ALPA feels that this is NOT a battle that pilots would win by engaging in a sympathy strike.


They can't just support every strike there is, regardless of the perceived risk or potential payoff. The priority for NWA ALPA is NWA pilots.




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Toecutter

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Because they know they'll wind up just like Eastern. Either NWA will cease operations or it will be the biggest scab airline in history.
 

JoeMerchant

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TonyC said:
ALPA's charter is not to support "labor," it's to support PILOTS. If ALPA saw this as a way to further the interests of pilots, I feel certain it would. However, it would seem that NWA ALPA feels that this is NOT a battle that pilots would win by engaging in a sympathy strike.


They can't just support every strike there is, regardless of the perceived risk or potential payoff. The priority for NWA ALPA is NWA pilots.

.

BINGO! The priority for NWA ALPA is NWA pilots The priority for DAL ALPA is DAL pilots, the priority for UAL ALPA is UAL pilots. And the beat goes on..... At least you are honest Tony, ALPA really isn't a trade union, rather it is a very loose association of self centered opportunists who whine when that same self centered opportunity is turned against themselves. What goes around comes around Tony.... maybe just maybe ALPA will learn that someday. I doubt it though.

Joe
10+ year ALPA volunteer who has seen the light....
 

TonyC

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JoeMerchant said:
BINGO! The priority for NWA ALPA is NWA pilots The priority for DAL ALPA is DAL pilots, the priority for UAL ALPA is UAL pilots.
You say that like it's a bad thing!?!? :)





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PCL_128

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JoeMerchant said:
BINGO! The priority for NWA ALPA is NWA pilots

Ummm, yeah. That's exactly the way it should be.
 

GVFlyer

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JoeMerchant said:
In 2000 and 2004, ALPA supported the Democratic candidate and opposed Bush. Ostensibly because Bush would be anti-labor. Now, Bush is allowing a strike to go on that ALPA does not support. Is ALPA "anti-labor"?

IRONIC???

Bush 1 allows the Eastern strike. Bush 2 allows this NWA AMFA strike. Clinton orders the American pilots back to work.

IRONIC????


Excellent observation, objective, devoid of emotional bias and empirical.

GV
 

regionaltard

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JoeMerchant said:
But ALPA is??? Shouldn't ALPA be supporting "labor"???

Not at the expense of "pilots." Shutting Northwest down would be pointless.
 
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