More 700s on the way for ASA & Skywest

[wmuflyguy]

Yea skywest could sell the gates to Southwest or someone else that wants them.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Nah - they would shop at Delta's bankruptcy sale, like they did with ATA.

 

[tuna pimp]

ASA / Skywest owns the gates in Atlanta now. If Delta were to vanish, you can bet somebody would want to fly out of the World's busiest airport. Sure it would hurt, but without Delta, we would have greater opportunities.

With who exactly?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Jerry Atkin did not exactly roll out his "if Delta dies" plan in a room full of blabber mouth pilots, after all, Delta is a customer and we wish them all the best - but - if you have not noticed yet, Jerry Atkin unlike most airline managers tends to think a couple of moves ahead.

 

[tuna pimp]

I don't question Jerry's skills as a manager. He's pretty solid. I'm just not convinced there's a huge market to place 200 or however many CRJs these days.

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Dave:

Pretty close is most certainly relative--feels like eternity looking backwards and I dread the insurmoutable mountain looming on the horizon. Denial and idealism are not my favored way of looking out at this industry...pretty pragmatic really.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Jerry Atkin did not exactly roll out his "if Delta dies" plan in a room full of blabber mouth pilots, after all, Delta is a customer and we wish them all the best - but - if you have not noticed yet, Jerry Atkin unlike most airline managers tends to think a couple of moves ahead.

I know a lot of guys that said that about Freddie Butrell. Goodluck to you, but if DL dies so will ASA and CMR.

 

[sweptback]

These airplanes aren't coming to ASA, short of a handful to replace the ATRs that are leaving. Do the math... SkyWest is gearing up to hire 500 next year, and ASA is only hiring for attrition right now.

I used to be optimistic about future growth here at the ATL, but I honestly expect a SkyWest base to open shortly. And CHQ, but we all saw that coming too. I bet it will end up like in 03-04 when ASA began the big push in DFW, and ATL was full of CMR jets.

 

[Tim47SIP]

He is right!

While I understand the need for scope in the short- or long-term, it is highly analagous to keeping market share--a business ideal that proves more detrimental that focusing on quality, competitiveness, innovation and a host of other factors. Majors excel at somethings: consistently operating thinly yielded routes relative to their cost structure is not one of them. The line is blurring between networked and regional carriers...



You can pretty much blame one entity for this, ALPA. Their tactics have been dismal at best. Normally, if someone always gets hit in the head when he walks into a certain room, he will eventually stop walking into that room. ALPA on the other hand must like getting hit in the head. :smash:

 

[blueridge71]

Yeah, my opinion... no more 70 seaters and definetely no 90 seaters! I want to eventually move up to a major. I don't want regionals taking away main line flying anymore than they already have.

Unfortunately, that battle has already been lost years ago. My prediction is that the majors (that survive) will end up flying internationally and from major metropolitan areas to other major metropolitan areas. Everything else will be contracted out to regionals. We are way down that road already with no signs of turning back.

I would much rather be at a major too, but I don't see much chance of that any time soon unless I finally get that Continental interview.

 

[blueridge71]

What if a well managed regional is able to grow into something more, with larger airplanes and a nationwide route structure; 48 states, a half dozen Canadian destinations and Mexico and the Caribean too? What if it grows to a size to where it is no longer dependent on "Major" partners? Can't do it with 50 seat RJ's, but 70 and 90 seaters? Throw in something in the 120-130 seat range and you got yourself an airline. Then Delta can go on strike and after liquidation they will have a place to send their applications.

Mainline scope clauses prevent regionals from getting too big for their britches. When ACA became Independence, it was at the expense of our regional contracts. That, in turn, caused us to be stuck with 50 seat jets that could not fly efficiently in an low fare carrier market. That, together with high fuel prices, killed Independence and put the fear of God into any other company that might try to go their own way.

 

[blueridge71]

And isn't it just like Delta to dump and airplane that burns 1/3 the fuel of an RJ? Delta buys the fuel since it is cheaper for them to purchase it than to buy it through a contract with their feeder. You would think Delta would be all about saving gas, but you would think a lot of things about the decisions made in the puzzle palace.

And at the same time, they give Mesa a contract to fly Dash 8s from JFK. Whassup with that?

And DAL's absence would definitely leave a vacuum in ATL. I"m sure that someone would step up and fill it. Whether it would be with ASA or Skywest airplanes is another question.

 

[propjockey]

All the rumors I've been hearing lately indicate that:

ALL of the 900's are going to ASA in ATL, and that SkyWest will be lucky if it gets any more than the 5 700's already on the published delivery schedule. (You can't blame Uncle Jerry for having the foresight to get planes, whether for ASA or SkyWest, capable of holding 90 even if they only start with 70 -- in the meantime, it would be great to ride on a 90 with about 12 first-class seats.)

There will NOT be an ATL domicile for SkyWest Airlines.

Also, the rumors of closing SLC for ASA seem to have all but completely died out.

Furthermore, I just got done with recurrent and sim. IF there are plans for SkyWest to hire very many people this year, nobody's bothered to tell the instructors. Their expectation is that things are going to be S L O W for a long time.

Discuss...

 

[EMB to CRJ]

I would think that where "SkyWest INC" puts there airplanes has a lot to do with where they are going to fly them. If you where Jerry and you had 2 airlenes both with existing bases in slc and one airline cost $5 more per hour(not to mention that since they fly both types then will not have to do all the difference classes that ASA would) to do the exact same thing why would you give the planes to ASA. Now if the planes are going to a base where only one airline has a base and giveing them to the other airline would mean having to set up a base or dream up ways to fly a hub away from you hub( I know we did it with CVG but there were a lot more places to connect ATL to CVG and ASA is currently using all the SLC ATL connecting cities) it would probbaly be cheaper to have the higher pilot cost airline fly it. If the airplane fly 8 hours a day and there are 17 of them it would cost about 250,000 more a year for ASA vs SKW(8 * $5 *17 * 365) I am sure it would cost a hell of a lot more for them to set up a SKW base in Atl. There were anouncements last year that SKW and ordered the planes but where waiting for Delta to give the fleet plan, great idea to get the 900 with 70 seats then if things change you can convert them over easly(i guess).

 

[rjcap]

I would think that where "SkyWest INC" puts there airplanes has a lot to do with where they are going to fly them. If you where Jerry and you had 2 airlenes both with existing bases in slc and one airline cost $5 more per hour(not to mention that since they fly both types then will not have to do all the difference classes that ASA would) to do the exact same thing why would you give the planes to ASA. Now if the planes are going to a base where only one airline has a base and giveing them to the other airline would mean having to set up a base or dream up ways to fly a hub away from you hub( I know we did it with CVG but there were a lot more places to connect ATL to CVG and ASA is currently using all the SLC ATL connecting cities) it would probbaly be cheaper to have the higher pilot cost airline fly it. If the airplane fly 8 hours a day and there are 17 of them it would cost about 250,000 more a year for ASA vs SKW(8 * $5 *17 * 365) I am sure it would cost a hell of a lot more for them to set up a SKW base in Atl. There were anouncements last year that SKW and ordered the planes but where waiting for Delta to give the fleet plan, great idea to get the 900 with 70 seats then if things change you can convert them over easly(i guess).

Skywest pilots make more in total compensation then ASA pilots by far. If Jerry wants to push the 700 paycut issue then he can open a Skywest base in ATL and have Skywest fly every single ASA 700. Otherwise he can kiss my as- regarding any type of paycut.

 

[General Lee]

Jerry Atkin did not exactly roll out his "if Delta dies" plan in a room full of blabber mouth pilots, after all, Delta is a customer and we wish them all the best - but - if you have not noticed yet, Jerry Atkin unlike most airline managers tends to think a couple of moves ahead.

B.S. --- IF DL liquidates, ASA will too, and SkyWest will be in major trouble. Comair would likely go away too. Any 50 seaters out there would be parked. No other legacies have the financial capacity (thanks to high fuel) to start up a new base at any of our hubs that quickly. Southwest and Jetblue don't use RJs, and neither does Airtran. Nope. Virgin America? Nah. Maybe SkyWest could start another "Indy Air"---and get smacked by Southwest, Jetblue, Fronteir, Spirit, Alaska, UAL, CAL, AA, NW.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[WWEfan]

I just cant believe that Jerry Atkin would gamble roughly $400 million on the chance that ASA would go under if Delta folds. He is a proven successful business man and he didn't get that way by shooting craps in Vegas. I'm sure he has a post-Delta plan. Its probably not Plan A or Plan B, but I think it's safe to say he has done his best to "cover his bets". We shall see.

 

[~~~^~~~]

B.S. --- IF DL liquidates, ASA will too, and SkyWest will be in major trouble. Comair would likely go away too.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General: If Delta "liquidates" I bet ASA / Skywest would be buying assets, just like they have already done. Comair would be in serious trouble, as it already is. Why do you expect anything different?

The 90 seaters are coming. Whether or not you figure Delta could use the extra revenue from 16 more seats is maybe up to your MEC. It seems you would approve of Delta getting more revenue, but to us, it does not really matter if the airplane has 86, or 26, seats. Delta pays the same either way.

At some point you will realize that Delta making a profit is a good thing for you.

 

[737 Pylt]

And the chequered flag drops on the race to the bottom.

The same was said at Mesa, and Comair, and at US Air, blah, blah, blah. General, you are are coming in garbled and stupid.

I love when an rjdc puke calls someone else stupid. Its kind of like the peole that smoke all their lives then sue the cigarette companies. You should know about lawsuit huh idiot??

ASA / Skywest owns the gates in Atlanta now. If Delta were to vanish, you can bet somebody would want to fly out of the World's busiest airport. Sure it would hurt, but without Delta, we would have greater opportunities.

Wrong again nimrod. If DL goes TU, so dies ASA, CMR and, SKYW would be in serious trouble!

Candidly, we are rapidly approaching the days when no one will really cares what the Delta pilots think. General, and his 10%, can threaten, bluster, demand, stop their feet, picket, what ever - does anyone think it changes economic reality? Leo set the altitude alterter at sea level and decended into the Rockies.

Nice analogy...Almost like the loudmouth bunch of rjdc losers at DCI that make up about less than 1%!?

The pilots have been trying to steal the contents of the liquor kit. Those who could grabbed a bottle and ran. They have much greater problems than whether or not ASA gets replacement jets for their ATR72's that are coming off lease. Delta said to dump the t-props and replace them, so that is what we are doing. The order did not come from the Delta MEC. Like someone else said, the problem is not the pilot wages, the the flippin G.O. Delta pilots could fly the airplanes for free, but they can not make it productive enough to support the rest of the infastructure that comes with a "real" pilot job.

I'll agree the senior folks who took their lump and ran, left in the nick of time! However, whatever ASA desides to use to replace the ATR's, will have to be subject to the DL pilots' PWA. Maybe you could file another lawsuit!

And isn't it just like Delta to dump and airplane that burns 1/3 the fuel of an RJ? Delta buys the fuel since it is cheaper for them to purchase it than to buy it through a contract with their feeder. You would think Delta would be all about saving gas, but you would think a lot of things about the decisions made in the puzzle palace.

Sounds to me you have issues with DL management, maybe you could take it up with ASA management and they could take it up with DL management!
I don't know who's worse, the rjdc, or managment...Your lies...All of them, by both of you, are pretty sickening!
737

 

[General Lee]

General: If Delta "liquidates" I bet ASA / Skywest would be buying assets, just like they have already done. Comair would be in serious trouble, as it already is. Why do you expect anything different?

The 90 seaters are coming. Whether or not you figure Delta could use the extra revenue from 16 more seats is maybe up to your MEC. It seems you would approve of Delta getting more revenue, but to us, it does not really matter if the airplane has 86, or 26, seats. Delta pays the same either way.

At some point you will realize that Delta making a profit is a good thing for you.

No, I think you are wrong big time. If Delta liquidates SkyWest would have to park all of their DL RJs for awhile to figure out what to do. In the meantime, they would be looking for other feed opportunites, and have to lower their fees tremendously. (can you say undercut?) The other regionals would follow, and SkyWest/ASA would be left out in the cold. ASA would park all of their planes (no feed in ATL and LCCs starting to come in) because there would be no more connections to the smaller cities (from Lynchburg to Monroe) and the larger cities would have Airtran and other LCCs swarming. The SLC ops for SkyWest would stop, and Southwest would beef up service to the larger cities (LA, LAS, OAK etc) and Jetblue would move in slowly. It would be total Chaos. SkyWest could try to be an Indy Air, but that would be short lived. Would they buy assets? How long would that take to start up a new fleet with training and proving runs? Southwest would be in there so fast you would be done. Nope, I am not buying it Fins. You better hope we don't fold. That means---no stretched RJs. We won't allow it. And, that will be great seeing 90 seaters with 70 seats----I want to non-rev in the unbelievable first class section on those planes----will there be lie-flat sleeper seats? There will be enough room. I will vote NO. And, I think DL could make a large profit with us (DL pilots) flying their own E175s and E190s, and you guys could REPLACE your CRJ-50s with more CR7s. Yeah, and SkyWest flies their CR7s for United in three class sections--First, Econ plus, and Coach. You could do that too, with CR7s. That would bring us some more profits, with DL mainline pilots still flying planes with over 70 seats. That MAY pass a TA vote, maybe.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[strega7]

If Delta goes away, couldn't Skywest buy the Delta operating certificate and some ex-Delta 737's and start an LCC pretty quick? Sure it may take a few months (like the Indy/NWA thing) but in less than 6 months Skywest could be up and running and feeding it's self in ATL. Or Skywest could contract with the likes of RyanAir or another 737 operater and get an LCC operation up PDQ. I'm pretty sure Jerry Atkin has a plan, it might be painful in the short term but he'll survive.

 

[79%N1]

Oh Please, please, please Gen Lee.....will you pretty please vote yes so I can have more 70 seaters!!! I'll take whatever you vote to give me. My career, no.....my life is in your hands!

 

[Tomct]

I do NOT want Big D to go away, but GL, strega may be onto something. IF Ma D went away, there are contract carriers out there "ryan" that could fly until enough guys were trained to take over the routes etc. Who KNOWS!!
Did'nt Skwst get the leases on all the gates in ATL? Funnier things have happened! Good Luck To ALL of US!!

 

[ohplease!]

It is more theirs than it is yours. The flying they chose not to do (50 and 70 seaters), is not theirs. It is Delta's flying(the company), they could kick you to the curb tomorrow (yea yea you guys have a contract!, well there are ways around that).

its all the companies. The DL pilots didn't "choose" not to do anything. They weren't even asked/wanted/needed to do the 50/70 flying. Just like they won't be asked/wanted/needed to do the 90+ seat flying.

There are ways around a contract? Ya' don't say?!? Just watch the way they get around the DL pilot contract.

 

[~~~^~~~]

No, I think you are wrong big time. If Delta liquidates SkyWest would have to park all of their DL RJs for awhile to figure out what to do. .... and SkyWest/ASA would be left out in the cold. ASA would park all of their planes ... there would be no more connections to the smaller cities (from Lynchburg to Monroe)... The SLC ops for SkyWest would stop, and Southwest would beef up service to the larger cities (LA, LAS, OAK etc) and Jetblue would move in slowly. It would be total Chaos. .... You better hope we don't fold. That means---no stretched RJs. We won't allow it. I will vote NO. And, I think DL could make a large profit with us (DL pilots) flying their own E175s and E190s, and you guys could REPLACE your CRJ-50s with more CR7s. Yeah, and SkyWest flies their CR7s for United in three class sections--First, Econ plus, and Coach. You could do that too, with CR7s. That would bring us some more profits, with DL mainline pilots still flying planes with over 70 seats. That MAY pass a TA vote, maybe.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Oh' so if you don't take my flying so you can upgrade, then it is the end of the World?

Remember when you said that all my talk of a Delta Bankruptcy was me crying like Chiken Little and screaming the "Sky is Falling?" What say you now?

Today I am telling you that your MEC has so marginalized your role in this industry that it is almost to the point we don't care what your position is. We are used to being attacked by our fellow ALPA brothers and have developed ways to deal with the problem.

Delta is either going to do what it needs to do - quickly - or it is adios Delta. Like they used to say about the Braves "This year is the year." Lets see how things look this fall.

You guys need to be fighting for survival, not fighting to take our flying.

I thought you already had a little PIC time, or are you like those legion of US Air pilots who fought for jets for jobs simply so they could get a little experience? Knowing a friend who knows Plato doesn't do Diddly at Fed Ex, AirTran, Southwest, Alaska, Continental, or UPS without a little 121 PIC time. It is a shame we can't help you pad your logbook, but your MEC decided that we and our flying were unworthy on numerous occasions.

 

[ohplease!]

B.S. --- IF DL liquidates, ASA will too, and SkyWest will be in major trouble. Comair would likely go away too. Any 50 seaters out there would be parked. No other legacies have the financial capacity (thanks to high fuel) to start up a new base at any of our hubs that quickly. Southwest and Jetblue don't use RJs, and neither does Airtran. Nope. Virgin America? Nah. Maybe SkyWest could start another "Indy Air"---and get smacked by Southwest, Jetblue, Fronteir, Spirit, Alaska, UAL, CAL, AA, NW.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

Nope. Delta contracts with a couple Ryan Air types for the coast to coast stuff and ups the ticket price to somewhat cut the loss of flying RJs only (ala Indy) while training ASA/SKYW/CHQ/MESA pilots to fly 737-757-767-777's (using stricking DL pilots as instructors). We would fly the bigger planes for 70 seat RJ rates to get them on property and then later raise the rates in the next contract.

I'd say we could include CMR pilots but I'm sure they would want to stand up for great guy's like yourself. Wouldn't they?

 

[twott driver]

And, I think DL could make a large profit with us (DL pilots) flying their own E175s and E190sThat MAY pass a TA vote, maybe.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Yeah right, like you're going to be able to get financing to buy a fleet of Emb products. Lets add some more debt to the already huge pile..... good thinking there GL!

Good luck and good night.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Oh' so if you don't take my flying so you can upgrade, then it is the end of the World?

Remember when you said that all my talk of a Delta Bankruptcy was me crying like Chiken Little and screaming the "Sky is Falling?" What say you now?

Today I am telling you that your MEC has so marginalized your role in this industry that it is almost to the point we don't care what your position is. We are used to being attacked by our fellow ALPA brothers and have developed ways to deal with the problem.

Delta is either going to do what it needs to do - quickly - or it is adios Delta. Like they used to say about the Braves "This year is the year." Lets see how things look this fall.

You guys need to be fighting for survival, not fighting to take our flying.

I thought you already had a little PIC time, or are you like those legion of US Air pilots who fought for jets for jobs simply so they could get a little experience? Knowing a friend who knows Plato doesn't do Diddly at Fed Ex, AirTran, Southwest, Alaska, Continental, or UPS without a little 121 PIC time. It is a shame we can't help you pad your logbook, but your MEC decided that we and our flying were unworthy on numerous occasions.

It is not "your" flying. What don't you get? It is a delta flying that you are contracted to do. ASA/CMR/SKYW don't sell tickets, and don't chose where they go/ they are all contracters, and don't own any routes.

 

[amcnd]

I cant wait tell Delta votes in some crappy TA by 78% and General Lee.. Eats his words!! Because you know it will pass!

 

[ohplease!]

It is not "your" flying. What don't you get? It is a delta flying that you are contracted to do. ASA/CMR/SKYW don't sell tickets, and don't chose where they go/ they are all contracters, and don't own any routes.

it doesn't "belong" to DL pilots either. Somehow I doubt Gen. Lea has ever decided what/where/when to fly anything. We're all contractors. Don't like it? Start your own company.