Monitoring cockpit systems not easy for pilots

[Scoot 11]

Bullsh/t.
SWA just got vnav. I had plenty of jobs that didn't- all the way down the line-

I said this from the beginning- our companies don't like this accident bc it highlights that pilots with flying skill are needed, when they want to move to single pilot ops to no pilot ops. They certainly want to believe we are overpaid for what we do.

Always leading the pack in everything. Pay, benefits, even vnav. Welcome to 1980. Too bad your pay and pay for training mentality never caught up. Keep telling the world you're the smartest guy in the room, at least your man love believes it.

 

[waveflyer]

Nope- not me scooter-

I'm a smart guy- but one of thousands of pilots that fit that bill and that's all I care to be

But why call me out? Are you one of the weak-dicks that can't fly anymore too??

 

[OldManPilot]

Flying is a skill. Any skill that is not practice will degrade over time. No company should try to persuade a pilot not to practice this skill, just as much as no pilot should allow himself/herself to not take the time or energy to click off the automation and had fly once in a while to keep those skill sets at top notch.

 

[HowardBorden]

But they mis managed the button pushing right? If they had been expert button pushers then the accident would not have happened? So in the company's mindset they need better button pushers to fly the airplane, crappy button pushers didn't work so well.

The ONLY buttons one should be pushing when they find the aircraft in an undesirable and deteriorating state is the autopilot and autothrottle disconnect buttons! It's that simple.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

The ONLY buttons one should be pushing when they find the aircraft in an undesirable and deteriorating state is the autopilot and autothrottle disconnect buttons! It's that simple.

Meh. Depends. TOGA works fine in most circumstances. Unless you've allowed it to REALLY deteriorate. If you get to a situation where you must turn the autopilot off (not want to, but must), that's a sign you've let things go way too far.

 

[HowardBorden]

Meh. Depends. TOGA works fine in most circumstances. Unless you've allowed it to REALLY deteriorate. If you get to a situation where you must turn the autopilot off (not want to, but must), that's a sign you've let things go way too far.

TOGA is an autopilot disconnect button in every transport category airplane I've ever flown.

 

[Q400 Gear Bitch]

TOGA is an autopilot disconnect button in every transport category airplane I've ever flown.

Guess you never flew the airbus.

 

[727gm]

Guess you never flew the airbus.

He was talking about REAL transport category airplanes.

 

[HowardBorden]

Guess you never flew the airbus.

Correct, I have not.

 

[dicko]

TOGA is an autopilot disconnect button in every transport category airplane I've ever flown.

That must be an impressive list of transport category airplanes Howard.

The 747, 787, 777, 767, 757 and 737 are all capable of TOGA whilst coupled to the autopilot. In other words, when you press TOGA the autopilot stays on. I know, I know; It doesn't stay on when you you press TOGA in a Southwest 737.

 

[HowardBorden]

That must be an impressive list of transport category airplanes Howard.

The 747, 787, 777, 767, 757 and 737 are all capable of TOGA whilst coupled to the autopilot. In other words, when you press TOGA the autopilot stays on. I know, I know; It doesn't stay on when you you press TOGA in a Southwest 737.

I never claimed it to be an impressive list, I'm only typed in three!

 

[HowardBorden]

737 are all capable of TOGA whilst coupled to the autopilot. In other words, when you press TOGA the autopilot stays on.

Does TOGA activation disconnect the autopilot in AirTran 737's?

 

[dicko]

Does TOGA activation disconnect the autopilot in AirTran 737's?

No. As long as dual channel is utilized. If only one (single channel) is engaged, pressing TOGA disconnects the autopilot.

Just giving you a hard time. Most modern medium body transport category airliners have this capability. That includes SWA 737s. SWA chooses to use HUDs to provide CAT3b capability instead of Autoland (Dual Channel approaches). I'm assuming its a money thing. Although your takeoff minima are 100 feet lower, so that's an advantage.

 

[HowardBorden]

SWA chooses to use HUDs to provide CAT3b capability instead of Autoland (Dual Channel approaches). I'm assuming its a money thing. Although your takeoff minima are 100 feet lower, so that's an advantage.

It's always a money thing at SWA. I once watched one of our maintenance guys re-certify the HUD as capable of performing CAT III approaches after having been deferred and downgrading the aircraft to CAT I only. It took a total of about 5 minutes while sitting at the gate. When I commented how quickly that went he told me that is where the savings is realized with the HUD. Re-certifying autoland, autopilot coupled approaches to CAT III is apparently a very long drawn out process involving a trip to the hangar and complicated avionics testing equipment.

 

[dicko]

It's always a money thing at SWA. I once watched one of our maintenance guys re-certify the HUD as capable of performing CAT III approaches after having been deferred and downgrading the aircraft to CAT I only. It took a total of about 5 minutes while sitting at the gate. When I commented how quickly that went he told me that is where the savings is realized with the HUD. Re-certifying autoland, autopilot coupled approaches to CAT III is apparently a very long drawn out process involving a trip to the hangar and complicated avionics testing equipment.

Makes sense.

Although from a safety point of view, if you're tired I prefer the Autoland. The other downside of Autoland is the number of ancillary systems that can downgrade its status. Auto spoilers MEL ..... no more Autoland. The list goes on.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

TOGA is an autopilot disconnect button in every transport category airplane I've ever flown.

I'm 50/50. One type it disconnects and gives you 10 degrees nose up on the flight director. The other (my current aircraft) it sets go-around thrust with the auto throttles and transitions the autopilot to the missed approach. I prefer the current setup.

 

[waveflyer]

Meh. Depends. TOGA works fine in most circumstances. Unless you've allowed it to REALLY deteriorate. If you get to a situation where you must turn the autopilot off (not want to, but must), that's a sign you've let things go way too far.

Which is the point. Recognizing "way too far" is easier for me when I'm good and proficient at hand flying- you sense it in your ass

 

[dicko]

you sense it in your ass

In one swift moment, Wave is immortalized in six carefully chosen words. The F.I. poster 'Uppercrust' is on the move. He's carrying a gallon of lotion and a ball-gag with "Wavey" tastefully monogrammed on it.

 

[waveflyer]

You wish dicko

And it's a stretch to find six words anywhere on FI that were "carefully chosen"

 

[Sacha]

Dicko,

I was slightly skeptical of HUD flying when tired versus Autoland having used Autoland on the 727 and 737 for a number of years. Then I got to use it for real in SMF and SEA in the 1st month after Upgrade. I'll take the HUD every time. All the info right in front of your eyes while looking straight out the front.....it's awesome. Wait till you use it. You will love it. Kinda like the first time you use a NightForce Scope or a Trijicon ACOG on your AR....I actually did that?