Misdemeanor question

[MalteseX]

Wrong ... wrong ... wrong. Run a search. No such thing where federal background investigations are concerned. Straight from the people who do them.

Geez!

Wrong. I was referring to employers who do hiring NOT federal investigators. Federal investigators can find expunged records. Employers cannot. If anyone discloses expunged records to employers, those who disclose it are guilty of a misdemeanor (in my state).

If you get it expunged, you can legally not bring it up. However, I would not do that ..... I personally would disclose it--just my opinion.

 

[Lollie]

Two questions?

I did a search on this subject and wanted to get something clear up. in the next few months I plan on applying for different airilnes. in 2001 (5 years ago) I was convicted of a 3rd class misdemeanor. My friends and i beat up a mail box after high school graduation. I recieved 24 months probation and community service. From my understanding I cannot work for an airline unless I have a SIDA badge, but right now I'm flying for a 135 outfit that has a secure badge that we wear. I plan bringing up the truth about this during the inteview if asked. This company I work for doesn't seem to care about it, i was just wondering how does most airline feel about it? will I get turned down for a job right away because of this?

Can you legally get the records sealed because of your age at the time it happened? Or can you get it exspunged(SP)?

 

[Snakum]

If you get it expunged, you can legally not bring it up.

And I've spoken to two pilots personally, and know about one other one thru a long-time poster here, who will tell you about losing their airline jobs because they did exactly that.

Just as the FAA guy told me two Summers ago, and I keep repeating here once or twice per year ...

If you have EVER been arrested for ANY reason, at ANY age, and with ANY eventual outcome, no matter how long ago it happened ... now, post 9/11, it WILL show up when your potential airline employer gets the paperwork back on you. And if you're a private pilot it will show up if the FAA digs into your stuff for any reason. And when any pilot with a conviction checks NO in the box on the medical form because he was told it was "sealed" or "expunged", and then the FAA ever has any reason at all to run your federal arrest record (which they will do for next to no reason at all nowadays) you will be hauled into federal court. Count on it. The federal "blotter" has one or two records of pilots getting an active jail sentence in just the last couple years for doing it. They are NOT playing ... they will smoke you for it.

But you do what you want ... no skin off my butt.

 

[MalteseX]

And I've spoken to two pilots personally, and know about one other one thru a long-time poster here, who will tell you about losing their airline jobs because they did exactly that.

Just as the FAA guy told me two Summers ago, and I keep repeating here once or twice per year ...

If you have EVER been arrested for ANY reason, at ANY age, and with ANY eventual outcome, no matter how long ago it happened ... now, post 9/11, it WILL show up when your potential airline employer gets the paperwork back on you. And if you're a private pilot it will show up if the FAA digs into your stuff for any reason. And when any pilot with a conviction checks NO in the box on the medical form because he was told it was "sealed" or "expunged", and then the FAA ever has any reason at all to run your federal arrest record (which they will do for next to no reason at all nowadays) you will be hauled into federal court. Count on it. The federal "blotter" has one or two records of pilots getting an active jail sentence in just the last couple years for doing it. They are NOT playing ... they will smoke you for it.

But you do what you want ... no skin off my butt.

Thanks for the info. I'm glad to hear that people are posting personal stories on here about what happened to them. Looks like the bottom line is that you run a risk anytime you do anything wrong--or run afoul of the law.

If you think you will not be called because of an arrest record you can:

a. Report it and hope you have an HR/Interviewer like several guys on this thread and also hope you don't get a "black and white" guy like is also on this thread. (Run risk of not getting hired)

b. Not report it--essentially lie and always be looking over your back. (Run risk of getting FIRED).

c . Attempt to get it expunged. Will cost $$$, take up court time and run the risk of your attempt being denied.
c1. After expungement, have a court order sealing the records
c2. Not report it on an application -- can legally do it. (Run risk of not getting hired)
c3. Report it on an application -- can do it if you want. (Run risk of not getting hired).
c4. Have legal recourse in some states to get your job back (and sue background check company) if fired for revealing sealed records to employer.
c5. Press criminal charges in some states (against party responsible) for revealing sealed records to employer.

d. Not do anything wrong

I have never seen an employer ask for your arrest record. I've only seen employers ask for conviction records on applications.

Finally, you NEVER keep anything from the FAA, or any other federal agency. Not revealing conviction records post-expungement is ONLY for employers. The fed government will have access to these records--so if it's a governmental agency that wants the info--provide it--

But you will not go to jail for not revealing an expunged conviction to an employer.

 

[Snakum]

The saddest story I've ever heard in that regard, was one told by Surplus about a friend of his at Comair. Seems a long-time Captain at Comair with many, many years of seniority was caught up in a drug thing as a younger man and helped the government in exchange for the arrest "being sealed".

Sure enough ... post 9/11 his stuff was flagged somehow and they found it pretty quickly. All those years right down the tubes. At least the two guys I talked to got caught while in ground school, so it wasn't as big a loss as a long-time career (though they probably didnt see it that way). In all three cases, their records were expunged or otherwise sealed, but their respective airlines found out in the normal course of post 9/11 record checks. Those are just three that I know of, so I'd imagine there have been many, many more.

My advice, the same advice I follow myself, is tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may. If it says "Have you ever been arrested ...", it isn't saying "this week". If it asks "Have you ever been convicted ..." it doesn't say "and not had the conviction overturned or otherwise sealed." It says what it says and if you don't want to get your heart broken in ground school you better tell 'em the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

And then there was the idiot in a town near me who didn't list an old drug conviction on his student pilot medical. He caught a six month ACTIVE sentence in a Federal penetentiary from the judge. They ain't playing, folks.

 

[MalteseX]

deleted

 

[MalteseX]

Most applications ask if one has been convicted. Having it expunged does not erase the fact that one was convicted. Answering "No" would therefore not be truthful and if somehow discovered, would most certainly lead to not being hired or even fired after the fact. If misdemeanor conviction is addressed on the application, answered factually and unemotionally. Do not bring it up in an interview unless asked and then calmly state the facts of the matter and how that is no reflection of your current self.

Having it expunged allows you to Legally answer "no" to having been convicted.

Do it at you own risk. But it will not show up on a background investigation available to employers. To do so subjects the releasing authority to criminal penalties.

 

[MalteseX]

The saddest story I've ever heard in that regard, was one told by Surplus about a friend of his at Comair. Seems a long-time Captain at Comair with many, many years of seniority was caught up in a drug thing as a younger man and helped the government in exchange for the arrest "being sealed".

Sure enough ... post 9/11 his stuff was flagged somehow and they found it pretty quickly. All those years right down the tubes. At least the two guys I talked to got caught while in ground school, so it wasn't as big a loss as a long-time career (though they probably didnt see it that way). In all three cases, their records were expunged or otherwise sealed, but their respective airlines found out in the normal course of post 9/11 record checks. Those are just three that I know of, so I'd imagine there have been many, many more.

My advice, the same advice I follow myself, is tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may. If it says "Have you ever been arrested ...", it isn't saying "this week". If it asks "Have you ever been convicted ..." it doesn't say "and not had the conviction overturned or otherwise sealed." It says what it says and if you don't want to get your heart broken in ground school you better tell 'em the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

And then there was the idiot in a town near me who didn't list an old drug conviction on his student pilot medical. He caught a six month ACTIVE sentence in a Federal penetentiary from the judge. They ain't playing, folks.

Sounds to me like all the above, with the exception of the last guy (idiot) has some legal recourse against their employers.

Need to check in the state where they are employed, but in my state, an employer cannot make employment decisions solely on replies on applications where an order of expungement was issued.

Disclosure of expunged information about criminal charges in an application, interview, or other means may not be required of a person who applies for employment

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Refusal by a person to disclose information about criminal charges that have been expunged may not be the sole reason for refusal to hire the person or to dismiss the person [/FONT]

I guess we beat the heck out of this horse.
But now the guy who asked the original question (started this thread) has a vast amount of opinions and info on his original question. And now I feel like applying for law school after researching "expungement" !!!!!!

P.S. I'd still disclose it .....a mailbox 5 years ago!!!!! Shouldn't be a problem

 

[Snakum]

Having it expunged allows you to Legally answer "no" to having been convicted.

Do it at you own risk. But it will not show up on a background investigation available to employers. To do so subjects the releasing authority to criminal penalties.

If I remember correctly, both pilots I talked with said their airline application specifically asks "Have you ever been arrested ...". And if, as you say, withholding employment for a conviction puts them at legal risk in some states, perhaps that's why it's worded as it is, r.e. "arrested".

In both cases it sure as $h!t came back as part of the standard airline background check and they were gone asap.

Man ... that musta' really sucked.

 

[Ready2Fly]

Real smart idea. Spend many thousands of dollars in lawyer fees so you can get your record cleaned up so you can get a job making crap at a commuter. Return in investment is minimal at best.

 

[flx757]

Ready2Fly is TheGuat, Rhoid, IHaveAPension, LucyFurr, E170GuppyKiller, TheGuppyKiller, GuppyKiller, TheMissingLink, ABXpert, UPSer, RJDC, OUT, 410Dude, BR549, FreightNazi....etc...etc... Ignore anything and everything he has to say. He has been "permanently" banned over 20 times yet continues to come around just to annoy people. Swat this fly.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

I don't think it's gonna take "many thousands of dollars" to clear this thing up. Maybe .5-1.0 hours explaining to a lawyer what you did, and what you now want him to do. Maybe .3-.5 hours preparing a motion, and another .3-.5 presenting it to the Judge (assuming he can have it heard on a day when he has other business before the court). If you're working for a 135 operation, you're probably not making any money, so he ought to cut you a break on the billing. Besides, since your goal is to become an airline pilot, he knows he's gonna be first in line to get your business when the inevitable divorce, DUI, or bankruptcy comes along.

I know that the hiring process at any airline can be fickle at best. But while I've never served on any pilot hiring committees, if I did, and a guy like this came along, looked me in the eye and admitted that he'd made a mistake for which he was profoundly remorseful, I'd cut him some slack. This was a third-class misdemeanor, not a baseball bat attack on a homeless person. He didn't do time, he didn't pay a fine, he didn't even have to pick up trash on the roadside. Obviously, the both the prosecutor and tha trial judge felt that he wasn't a "menace to society," and that the probability of recurrence was low. If we're talking about how something like this affects his suitability to operate a complex, expensive piece of equipment, I'd be far more concerned with his driving record. At least there, history has shown some correlation between regulatory violations and safety.

An 18 year old kid gets a little wound-up on grad night and takes out a mailbox. If silly stuff like that barred guys from aviation careers, there would never have been ANY astronauts, fighter pilots, or Federal Express.

 

[silver02ex]

Sounds like it was a mixed feelings about the subject. I got a call from regional company today with a class date offer. On the app it asked about the misdemeanor and I put it on there. During the interview I was asked about it by 2 different captains. One said to the other "how will this look on the background check?" the other said "nothing will come up." I told him exactly what happened and it seemed like both captains were cool about it.

 

[aussiefly]

good for you silver!

Congrats on the class date and if you ever need anything feel free to PM me.

cheers

 

[Ready2Fly]

flx 757 is TheGuat, Rhoid, IHaveAPension, LucyFurr, E170GuppyKiller, TheGuppyKiller, GuppyKiller, TheMissingLink, ABXpert, UPSer, RJDC, OUT, 410Dude, BR549, FreightNazi....etc...etc... Ignore anything and everything he has to say. He has been "permanently" banned over 20 times yet continues to come around just to annoy people. Swat this fly.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

LOL at this thread. I have a SIDA badge, if I can get one I'm sure you can get one. I was part of that wild jock crowd in high school and college (I wrestled D1 in college). I, no wait it was a "friend" that got our whole wrestling team banned from attending ANY on campus parties including frat parties. I won't go into any details of stuff, but a little mailbox baseball. Thats nothing. Try 200 or 300 mailboxes in night, not like we did that or anything. That kind of stuff is against the law you know.

 

[FN FAL]

And I've spoken to two pilots personally, and know about one other one thru a long-time poster here, who will tell you about losing their airline jobs because they did exactly that.

Just as the FAA guy told me two Summers ago, and I keep repeating here once or twice per year ...

If you have EVER been arrested for ANY reason, at ANY age, and with ANY eventual outcome, no matter how long ago it happened ... now, post 9/11, it WILL show up when your potential airline employer gets the paperwork back on you. And if you're a private pilot it will show up if the FAA digs into your stuff for any reason. And when any pilot with a conviction checks NO in the box on the medical form because he was told it was "sealed" or "expunged", and then the FAA ever has any reason at all to run your federal arrest record (which they will do for next to no reason at all nowadays) you will be hauled into federal court. Count on it. The federal "blotter" has one or two records of pilots getting an active jail sentence in just the last couple years for doing it. They are NOT playing ... they will smoke you for it.

But you do what you want ... no skin off my butt.

Some FAA guy told our dropzone that we could use private pilots for flying jumpers at a non-profit skydiving club and additionally told us the plane ride to altitude was incidental to making a skydive. Those FAA guys say a lot of things.

You don't by chance have the name of this FAA guy handy or his phone number?

 

[flx757]

flx 757 is TheGuat, Rhoid, IHaveAPension, LucyFurr, E170GuppyKiller, TheGuppyKiller, GuppyKiller, TheMissingLink, ABXpert, UPSer, RJDC, OUT, 410Dude, BR549, FreightNazi....etc...etc... Ignore anything and everything he has to say. He has been "permanently" banned over 20 times yet continues to come around just to annoy people. Swat this fly.

It didn't work as your previous banned usernames and it won't work now. Those who run the site know what is what and who is who. Trust me.

 

[Snakum]

Some FAA guy told our dropzone that we could use private pilots for flying jumpers at a non-profit skydiving club and additionally told us the plane ride to altitude was incidental to making a skydive. Those FAA guys say a lot of things.

You don't by chance have the name of this FAA guy handy or his phone number?

I'm not talking about some idiot at the local FSDO. This 'FAA guy' was a sworn Federal Law Enforcement officer in charge of all background investigations in the ATL region (NC, SC, GA, etc.).

How's MAC treating you?

 

[Snakum]

Sounds like it was a mixed feelings about the subject. I got a call from regional company today with a class date offer. On the app it asked about the misdemeanor and I put it on there. During the interview I was asked about it by 2 different captains. One said to the other "how will this look on the background check?" the other said "nothing will come up." I told him exactly what happened and it seemed like both captains were cool about it.

You did the right thing and it worked for you. Congrats man!