Minority Hiring

[atafan]

I know I will be labeled a racist when I say this very un PC statement.

You should be hired or fired on your merits alone, race, sex or even sexual preference should have nothing to do with this process. Treat every man and women equally and don't even have those check boxes on any application for employment or education.

 

[FSIGRAD]

Atafan,

Your absolutely correct. Having the boxes is the ultimate act of racism. Why should it matter what color my skin is unless you looking to fill a quota? If I were black I'd want that portion of the application removed. It's a hollow statement when black pilots say that box didn't help them. If you didn't think it would have helped you, then you should have left it blank. Applications should have your first initial and last name only. This way they have no idea if your male/female, black/white, crazy/sane only that your qualified. If anyone disagrees, they obviously weren't around during the hiring in the mid/late 90's. Quatos got filled then.

 

[marcal]

....misusing membership in an organization or changing your name to something sterotypical of a minority to get some hiring advantage is wrong.

It may be unethical but sometimes you need to work the system that is working you.

 

[DIAMONDDD]

misusing membership in an organization or changing your name to something sterotypical of a minority to get some hiring advantage is wrong.

Some would say that getting called for an interview because you have a name that is typical of a minority is wrong as well. I put my name down as "Tonto Hernandez Doggy-Dogg. The phone rang as I finished my name on the application. I didn't even get a chance to send it in.

Yours,
THDD

 

[habubuaza]

I joined a black flying club in New York called NAI (Negro Airman Incorporated) when I was just getting started (this is like 18 years ago, crap am I getting old!) I got my Private and Instrument Rating there. The prices were unbelievably cheap, the airplanes were unbelievably kick a$$, and you could do everything from 0 to ATP. My instructor was Chinese! Many whites, blacks, hispanics, asian, everyone it was definately a fun time in my career. They did an annual trip to Trinidad and Tobago for Carnival and all were invited (you had to pay though!) We had Airline Pilots, guys from American, Pan Am (at the time) TWA, United, even a regional director of the NTSB, just the whole spectrum, many guys did lease backs with their private aircraft. I don't think many would have been able to afford flying if it had not been for NAI including many blacks, whites, asians and other races. It really epitomized (at the time) what it meant to give someone a helping hand. We helped each other, we networked and it led a path to the cockpit of jets for many of us, civilian and military. I have made many friends there that I keep in touch with to this day.

It was also my experience with NAI that made me a huge fan of flying clubs for flight training and aircraft rentals.

 

[capt. megadeth]

I know I will be labeled a racist when I say this very un PC statement.

You should be hired or fired on your merits alone, race, sex or even sexual preference should have nothing to do with this process. Treat every man and women equally and don't even have those check boxes on any application for employment or education.

Why would this be racist? Isn't this supposed to be what America is all about?EQUAL TREATMENT FOR ALL!!!!!!!! FUK PC.

I agree with you 100%.

FSIGRAD,
You would have to take the name off too. How many male pilots are named Susan, Betty, etc.?

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Another side of the coin.....a lot of minorities......more than you suspect....feel like they have to be a lot better than average so no one gets the idea they got our job only due to being able to check some minority box on an application. For what it's worth I check the white box since I look white and live white and have never had the disadvantages that many other people like me have had. Changing your name or misusing membership in a fine organization like the black pilots group to get some advantage not due you is being a schmuck and is wrong. WC (1/4 Native American)

That uncertainty about one's competence is a price of affirmative action. It's not surprising and will never go away. But it is not a terrible burden. A similar burden exists if you have good friends or relatives at the company you work for. I don't feel sorry for anyone who complains about this burden.

IMHO, check whatever box you can. In the end you need a job and, if you perform the job to the utmost of your ability, you should be happy. Affirmative action or not, people often think ill thoughts about other people. It is a terrible human flaw.

I don't like the word white, I think it's racist. I'm Eastern European American.

 

[Swann757]

the short answer is no its not wrong. We have members that are not black, and they are all welcome and treated like any other member. But if you are joining only to show up at convention time and drop off some resume's and not participate and support in any of the other volounteer events like ACE camps or Pilots in schools, that is certianly frowned upon by all members. Hope to see you at the convention in Phoenix next year.

www.obap.org

Thanks HBrow15 and I ditto what you said. What irritates me is when members get theirs and not heard from anymore, or anybody who comes to the convention for the sole purpose of trying to shortcut the system to get a job and have no desire or ambition and most likely don't have a clue of the goal and objectives of OBAP.

As I stated in another post with a similar type of question, how would you have felt when the same minorities being hired today with the same quals and experience but 25 to 30 years ago and weren't being hired then? Back then it seemed okay to alot of people which is why OBAP had to be started in the first place.

Don't abuse the organization for your own selfish needs but instead give to it and in due time it will definitely give back to you.

 

[E170Guppykiller]

My or your sexual preference should have no bearing on getting hired.

 

[1-tacan-rule]

Hmmm.

As an African-American I am feeling very uncomfortable with where this thread is going.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I am white, it's just that my grandparents are from South Africa....so that makes me an African American.

 

[hbrow15]

Maybe my question should have been.....have any people that are not minorities but members of OBAP gotten an interview after joining?

If I understand what you are asking, if you join OBAP and now can put it on your resume will you get an interview?, maybe. But if you get an interview being an OBAP could hurt you and even more so if you are not black. What I mean by that is there are companies that are HUGE supporters of OBAP that come to the conventions that are not even hiring, United always has a representative present and this year Northwest was the host of this years convention, one in bankruptcy one on the verge so obviously niether is hiring just there to support the organization and its goals. Alaska is always there if they are in hiring mode or not the first convention I went to in Seattle a few years ago Alaska was the host but they were not hiring, you get the point. Here is where it could hurt you UPS is one of the biggest supporters as well as FedEx and Southwest and recently Jetblue, if you are a white male and get an interview with one of these company's and you have OBAP on your resume and all you have done is showed up at the convention went to the Airline seminar and floated a few resume's it could be something you may have to deal with in an interview. In the get to know you portion of the interview you will probably asked about OBAP and how you have participated. At last years convention I believe it was aero service, gave away two type ratings, out of those that applied they were not given to the one with the most flight time or most experienced or most qualified they were awarded specifically to those that gave thier time to the organization. Could you imagine how you or I would be looked upon at a Women in Aviation convention dropping resume's and doing nothing else to support the organization. It probably would not go over well to a company that spends lots of time and money giving with these groups and seem to either be offended when think someone is useing these groups. Dont get me wrong this happens to all of us, just someone who is not black is suspect from the start, but if you talk about doing ACE camps, Pilots in schools or something of the such, it scores good points. Go to the web site and look at the newsletter and go to some of the regions (northwest, southeast...)page and you will see what the group is about and how some of our members talk about how upset it makes them to see other members use the organization for thier on personal use and never put anything back and most of our members are black so imagine if you did it. But again I'm not saying any of this to dicourage you from joining just trying to answer your question as I understand it., this is the same thing I say to all would be members in hope of getting people that want to support our goals. If you do join 1st round on me, I like Bud Light.

 

[k2774]

Excellent perspective hbrow15.....

 

[Otto Coarsen]

UPS is one of the biggest supporters

What can Brown do for you?




No offense.... I'm sorry.... Couldn't resist....

 

[ForgedBlade]

One of the guys I know from my former airline joined OBAP (he's a white guy) and put that on his CAL application. He was called for an interview very shortly thereafter. It's kind of funny, on the day of the interview, he was the only white guy there. He did get hired though!

 

[hbrow15]

One of the guys I know from my former airline joined OBAP (he's a white guy) and put that on his CAL application. He was called for an interview very shortly thereafter. It's kind of funny, on the day of the interview, he was the only white guy there. He did get hired though!

That is funny because usually it's the other way around, at least when I interview I'm the only black guy.

 

[ForgedBlade]

I'd love to be in a position to control hiring some day. I would want NO reference to race or sex. Everyone would be just a number and on the interview day, I would discover the rest. Qualifications and attitude would be primary.

 

[Swann757]

My or your sexual preference should have no bearing on getting hired.

My exact point when it was really prevelant 25 to 30 years ago, but apparantly the [dark] color of one's skin back then did make a difference is the reason why OBAP came along.

 

[ForgedBlade]

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would surely agree. I could care less what someone's color or race is, as long as they can do the job!