Minimums at Fratcionals

[Dennis]

Hey guys, sorry if this has been addressed elswhere, but are the published mins on the fractional websites hard and fast, or is there wiggle room?, I have the listed total time, but just an ATP written, is this good enough or do I need to spend the 1200 bucks for the weekend crash course to have a shot? Thanks.

 

[CapnVegetto]

NJA & FLEX 2500 TT, 500 Multi
CitationShares 2000 TT, 1500 multi and other small stuff
FLOPS: I dunno.....internal recommendation.

You HAVE to meet the mins everywhere, it's in the owner contracts that pilots will have at least this amount of flight time.

ATP will help I think, but you don't really need one, especially if you've got the written done, b/c you will get an ATP for free during training. I wouldn't spend the money personally.

NJA will hire you with mins and a pulse, they can't fill classes right now. CS is a little more picky. It's the best one of the bunch right now, and you probably need an internal rec. FLOPS sucks, don't go there. Flex is in the middle. Best starting pay of them all, but get ready to sit in the right seat for a long time anywhere.

Correct me if I'm wrong anyone.

 

[Dennis]

Thanks,

I like I said, I meet the posted mins (barely in some cases) but I don't have an ATP. I am contemplating a lateral move from a part 121 regional. Do you know what is competitive at those places?

 

[gunfyter]

No ATP is not competitive

No PIC time is not competitive

 

[CapnVegetto]

CS: pretty competitive. Like I said, shortest upgrade, happiest group. You'll probably need an internal rec there.

FLOPS: Hiring, but only for certain bases. If you live where they are looking for people, you have a good chance. However, people I talk to in FBO's and on this board seem very unhappy. They have an ex regional CEO, and he's trying to run it like a regional.

Flex: Hiring, but I have no idea what it takes there.

NJA: Hiring, and if you meet the mins, you are competitive. They can't get people to come work for them. Nobody wants to be gone half the year for $27K. Not to mention all the union stuff that is going on.

But in my opinion, anything is better than a regional. I hated every second there.

 

[vixin]

Where do people get their info? FlexJet 2500tt 500 multi 500turbine ATP. An inside rec will help greatly.

 

[gunfyter]

I don't know. Is there any frac that does not require an ATP?

 

[CL604DRVR]

Thanks,

I like I said, I meet the posted mins (barely in some cases) but I don't have an ATP. I am contemplating a lateral move from a part 121 regional. Do you know what is competitive at those places?

If you are flying turbine equipment and can see an upgrade at the regional you are with any time in the near future I would stay there. You will need at least 1000 hours pic turbine as defined by FAR part 1 to be competitive at most higher jobs. You WILL NOT get that at any fractional without a very long wait. However, if you think the fractionals are where you want to spend your career then make the move. That's my two cents and it cost you nothing.

604

PS
You either meet the minimus or you don't. Saying you barely meet them doesn't help your case. Much of getting hired is about the presentation. Good luck

 

[Dennis]

thanks guys,
allow me to clairfy my question, and I think it's been pretty well answered. I meet all of the posted minimums with the exception of the ATP, I don't have much more than than some of the mins, i.e. PIC I have 760, most of that as a Flight Instructor. I'm sitting on 2600TT, better than half of that is Turbine Multi. I have never been a CAPT anywhere. I was just curious about the ATP requirement, since getting an ATP would be an easy addon to a type rating. I sounds like I'm stuck hoping for an upgrade, or shelling out the $$.

 

[gunfyter]

I think you got it.

ATP will likely get you in at NJA if you do it NOW. Once a TA happens and the new payscale is published... I would expect it will be MUCH more difficult to get your foot in the door.

$1200 for the ATP will then likely lead to you get an all expense paid Type Rating worth $10 - 20 K maybe.

The big difference in getting in at NJA and the other fracs is probably the Recommendation. You don't need one here right now...

The slight risk is coming in now there is a possibility of a release strike and firing of the union pilots to bring in a replacement air force.

But then you are fired you no longer are responsible for that pesky $20K training contract.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Dennis,

Sounds like you have a little spare cash for your professional education. Let me ask a couple questions.

1. Can you read and write the english language with some accuracy? (obviously yes judging by your posts)

2. Can you string a couple of logic based arguments together? (I'm guessing yes)

Do yourself a favor. Use the money to take the LSAT. Go to law school. Make a ton of money so that when you walk on board the aircraft, you turn right and not left. Then buy one of those cool looking ATG Javelins when they come out and go punch holes in the sky for giggles whenever you want.

Flying airplanes may be a fun way to make a living, but aviation is a STUPID business.

(Still flying for cash but wish I'd had this advice 10 years ago)

 

[gunfyter]

Do yourself a favor. Use the money to take the LSAT. Go to law school. Make a ton of money so that when you walk on board the aircraft, you turn right and not left. Then buy one of those cool looking ATG Javelins when they come out and go punch holes in the sky for giggles whenever you want.

(Still flying for cash but wish I'd had this advice 10 years ago)

Gutshot...

That is the best advice I have seen here in a long time.

But if you must fly for a living do it in the military. Then retire and fly for Customs or some other govt agency.

 

[avbug]

This may not be what you're looking for, but Avantair just posted on climbto350.com. They're looking for F/O's with 1,500 total, and I forget the rest...but it's low. Something like 500 multi. They specify either an ATP, or working toward your ATP.

I don't know if that's the direction you want to go, but their ad states that they're hiring for the next two months. Several locations are listed in the ad; it says you need to live within two hours of any of them. They all appeared to be in the Southern Florida area. (Miami, Tampa, etc).

 

[pilot91101]

............

 

[psysicx]

Yeah being a lawyer is so much better.

 

[FrontierFan]

I too was at a regional before the fractionals. I came from Chautauqua and I have met many others at netjets who came from Mesaba, Piedmont, and Independence Air. From all of my conversations with them I think that all of us ex regional folk have similar opinions of netjets.

I would have to say that in my case choosing to come to netjets and forego the captain upgrade was a tough one. Once we get a new contract things will be clearer. For now I still don’t know if I made the right decision but other than the money there have been some positives.

The flying is great, the food and hotels are above and beyond any regional, all new equipment, and calling in sick or fatigued is as easy as typing a code and your blackberry. Honestly working at a frac isn’t that bad except the money is terrible. I just looked at my pay stub for my year to date and as of 09/30/05 I have made 30,314 total. How anyone earns this little and has children in beyond me.

As for the lawyer deal….I just got back from hanging out with one of my best friends I grew up with. He chose to become a lawyer and now his life is 180 deg different than mine. He has tons of disposable income but he also works 80+ hours / week. By the sound of it he will never have an entire weekend off until he makes partner.
I hate being poor and continuously frustrated at our management. I hope our new TA will take care of that someday but in the mean time with my schedule my lifestyle is head and shoulders above any of my lawyer friends.

Everyone makes decisions in life. Like I said I don’t know that if I could go back I would do it all again but for now I just have to hope things get better.

F9fan

 

[idratherfly4283]

I believe the ability to correctly spell fractionals would be a start to their minimums.

 

[transpac]

I believe the ability to correctly spell fractionals would be a start to their minimums.

Are you for real??

 

[414Flyer]

I actually did some looking at law schools some lately. Many of the campus type law schools are quite restrictive, in that you can not work your first year, but you can work part time the last two years. Concord law school, part of Kaplan, has an online law school that take 4 years.

 

[rcbullock]

Flying airplanes may be a fun way to make a living, but aviation is a STUPID business.

I say, and if it ain't fun any more, it's time to get out or move to a place that is.

I also offer some additional advice. Make some money on the side somehow. I do vending and arcade machines. Candy (M&M, Reeses, Skittles, quality stuff), japanese capsule toys (higher quality with Disney and Marvel licenses etc, not the crap you see everywhere), and games that are older but classic like Galaga, Neo Geo (has a LOT of good cheap games for it), etc.

Most of my machines make average net $10 per month. Some machines I got in for less than $200. That may not sound like much, but consider the return on investment. I bought 10 4 head candy machines that needed parts and cleaning (cann'd parts from the other machines) for $300. $25 in candy per machine and you're in business. Visit a site once a month or so. Try to have more than one machine in a spot or multiple 'heads' like a 4 head machine. Space them close together. A lot of my machines are within 5-6 miles of each other.

I'd say at this point it's a couple hundred bucks a month extra income, but it's easy, fun (my kids love to play with the toys and machines) and you can get started cheap.

I'd look for used machines that need a little work or a small lot of them from a vendor who is getting new stuff, etc., but you can of course get new ones at Sam's and the like. Don't do video unless you have some technical skills to work on them. Some monitor types I can totally refurbish for maybe $60 in parts, for example.

I also like 'junk' bond closed end income funds like DHF, HYB, HIS, and PHK. Paying 9-10%. I've owned a chunk of those for about 4-5 years, and enjoyed the dividend every month. Currently I own $5600 worth and get about $48 a month from it. Great ROI, but just don't put your life savings in it.

ING Direct is paying around 3.35% on savings.

Be a raging incrementalist. Start with a little, finish with a lot.