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Mindset of the typical US Airways east pilot?

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DCAA320 said:
Everyone talks big behind the keyboard and like someone else said on another thread, you need some new material, your old crap is getting old.
Click to expand...

If you remind him of some of the crap that happened at his super airline, he suddenly becomes ... let's say, pauciloquent. He feeds on misery and disputes of others, I have seen this type with previous mergers.
 
DCAA320 said:
Everyone talks big behind the keyboard and like someone else said on another thread, you need some new material, your old crap is getting old.
Click to expand...

The truth hurts, eh DCAA320? Yeah it does, and it will. Your group is the laughing stock of this industry, and everyone knows what happened. I bet the APA guys are licking their chops, and watching to see if you cross your fingers behind your back.... That appears to be necessary dealing with you guys...


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Dornier 335 said:
If you remind him of some of the crap that happened at his super airline, he suddenly becomes ... let's say, pauciloquent. He feeds on misery and disputes of others, I have seen this type with previous mergers.
Click to expand...

Wrong. Not even close. The Pan Am acquisition was partial assets, and those guys could have stayed at Pan Am until the end, or some went to UAL. The Western pilots got twice the pay, and stayed out West. None of those groups had anything binding that could be legally challenged, like the Westies do now. Wrong again Dornier.... But you've seen this type before.....riiiight. Nobody had ever seen this type of "land grab" that your union has tried to pull, in front of everyone! We all know your group is guilty, and soon it will hopefully be proven in court. It's ripe, just like your shorts.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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A350 said:
Whats an embarrassment to the industry is a Union that has allowed seniority integration policy (just about the most important part of any pilots career should it happen to the airline you work for) to be a flag pointed in any direction based on the current "administration" instead of a hard, not wavering policy that you either get behind or you get lost.

For crying out loud, the AFA has better principles when it comes to this stuff than the ultimate pilots union. This should have been fixed years ago.

ALPA has let this fester for years. They never offered or brokered a solution. The elephants (DAL, NWA, UAL) got their way while the TWA's, the USAir's, and the Air Tran's of the world took it in the shorts. (and the Pan Am guys before that)

Since I take it on faith that UAL furloughees were given credit for their time at the airline within the merged SLI with CAL, I guess it escapes most of you that this is the inevitable result of the political clown show that is ALPA merger policy.

The only thing that bodes well for the future with ALPA and merger policy is that for the most part, future consolidation and therefore merger policy, will be on the back burner for a while now.

That is little consolation for those who have to daily eat the crap sandwich that ALPA served up to the USAir group....including East and West.

A350
Click to expand...

Usapa has done more harm to the East and West than ALPA. Period. The east will soon realize what a stain Usapa has left on their careers. If you're not following closely, look at the infighting among the personalities among its scab leadership.

They hate each other. APA cannot take over fast enough to end this miserable group of idiots and their schemes.
 
General Lee said:
Wrong. Not even close. The Pan Am acquisition was partial assets, and those guys could have stayed at Pan Am until the end, or some went to UAL. The Western pilots got twice the pay, and stayed out West. None of those groups had anything binding that could be legally challenged, like the Westies do now. Wrong again Dornier.... But you've seen this type before.....riiiight. Nobody had ever seen this type of "land grab" that your union has tried to pull, in front of everyone! We all know your group is guilty, and soon it will hopefully be proven in court. It's ripe, just like your shorts.


Bye Bye---General Lee
Click to expand...

Personal attack, again? Are you ready for another FI vacation?

What do you know about the mergers I had previously mentioned to you? Nothing! Happened a long time ago, on another continent far far away (~8 hours), but your sorry type that sticks his nose into other peoples poo is universal. Either because of pure Schadenfreude or because of being a self proclaimed Aviation Jesus.

P.S. Tell us how the PA guys had to re-interview.
 
A350 said:
Whats an embarrassment to the industry is a Union that has allowed seniority integration policy (just about the most important part of any pilots career should it happen to the airline you work for) to be a flag pointed in any direction based on the current "administration" instead of a hard, not wavering policy that you either get behind or you get lost.

For crying out loud, the AFA has better principles when it comes to this stuff than the ultimate pilots union. This should have been fixed years ago.

ALPA has let this fester for years. They never offered or brokered a solution. The elephants (DAL, NWA, UAL) got their way while the TWA's, the USAir's, and the Air Tran's of the world took it in the shorts. (and the Pan Am guys before that)

Since I take it on faith that UAL furloughees were given credit for their time at the airline within the merged SLI with CAL, I guess it escapes most of you that this is the inevitable result of the political clown show that is ALPA merger policy.

The only thing that bodes well for the future with ALPA and merger policy is that for the most part, future consolidation and therefore merger policy, will be on the back burner for a while now.

That is little consolation for those who have to daily eat the crap sandwich that ALPA served up to the USAir group....including East and West.

A350
Click to expand...

Then you answer my previous question
Where was your movement to change ALPA merger policy before america west bought you?
 
waveflyer said:
Then you answer my previous question
Where was your movement to change ALPA merger policy before america west bought you?
Click to expand...

Date of Hire is a standard we all live by- next time you non rev see how it is ordered. Next time you bid for schedules see how the bid results are ordered. You need to understand alpa was gone long before crazy St Nic came along. All that senile arbiTRAITOR did was give us the last straw. The greedy Westicles gave us unity.
Look at how things have changed between east and west since 2005. East- hired. West- furloughed. Nuff said
 
St. Nic said:
Date of Hire is a standard we all live by- next time you non rev see how it is ordered. Next time you bid for schedules see how the bid results are ordered. You need to understand alpa was gone long before crazy St Nic came along. All that senile arbiTRAITOR did was give us the last straw. The greedy Westicles gave us unity.
Look at how things have changed between east and west since 2005. East- hired. West- furloughed. Nuff said
Click to expand...

"Unity" is alive and well among the dysfunctional "leadership" at the sinking union. East on East! Is that how they run things in "yer neck'o the woods"?

St. Nic, your buddies seem scared...

(Cue: dueling banjos)
 
St. Nic said:
Date of Hire is a standard we all live by- next time you non rev see how it is ordered. Next time you bid for schedules see how the bid results are ordered. You need to understand alpa was gone long before crazy St Nic came along. All that senile arbiTRAITOR did was give us the last straw. The greedy Westicles gave us unity.
Look at how things have changed between east and west since 2005. East- hired. West- furloughed. Nuff said
Click to expand...
Parker whipsawed us against you...the Cheap Labor. You delivered a one Billion dollar gift right on his lap because of your egregious little temper tantrum. 2 out of 3 upgrades wasn't enough for you greedy, sale absorbed, entitled prickks. You had to get them ALL. I hope the 100 extra temporary upgrades was worth pissing away over a THIRD of your career idiot.
 
wave.....

Do you really reside in a fantasy world where you believe a USAir pilot would have any luck in changing ALPA merger policy?

The elephants control this. And no matter what, ALPA only changed it again because they couldn't afford to have another merger mess on their hands and potentially lose another airline group after the East pilots took their ball and went home.

ALPA didn't understand that you cant screw with the majority of any group and expect a decent outcome in the end. The Nic, agree with it or not, screwed the majority and the result was pretty predictable.

A350
 
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A350 said:
wave.....

Do you really reside in a fantasy world where you believe a USAir pilot would have any luck in changing ALPA merger policy?

The elephants control this. And no matter what, ALPA only changed it again because they couldn't afford to have another merger mess on their hands and potentially lose another airline group after the East pilots took their ball and went home.

ALPA didn't understand that you cant screw with the majority of any group and expect a decent outcome in the end. The Nic, agree with it or not, screwed the majority and the result was pretty predictable.

A350
Click to expand...

You are trying to blame ALPA for not dealing with an impossible situation. On one hand you had an old established airline that had a lot of pilots on furlough that probably were not coming back and in fact, most saw that USAir was on the verge of being parted out. On the other hand you had an upstart airline that was not furloughing and in fact, had Captains hired after many of the USAir furloughees had been. While AWA was not exactly a financial powerhouse, they did have the resources to put together a deal that did, in fact, revive the East's careers. There was just not an easy solution or any way of merging this list civilly , the correct thing was to go to binding arbitration and then just move forward.
The fact that St Nic thinks a few pilots hired on the east side (were labor was cheapest) justifies the loss of a billion dollars or more to the pilot group shows just how irrational the USAPIAN train of thought can be.
 
Dan:

ALPA gets paid to deal with impossible situations....however they suck at resolving them and love to duck and run when the chips are down.

Of course there was an acceptable way to do this....they just don't want to hear it.

Permanently disadvantaging the majority of a pilot group for the rest of their career when there were viable solutions available is where the wheels went off the wagon. (fences, conditions and restrictions which were a part of many a previous SLI ) That, combined with Prater's condescending leadership and you have a predictable outcome. You cannot expect rational behavior from the East because with the implementation of the Nic, they had nothing left to lose.

The notion that AWA saved USAir is in the eyes of the beholder. AWA did not have the money, nor the business to swallow the East by any means. The banks gave them the money to broker a deal because the combined entity was more viable than the two separate companies. AWA needed a deal to survive long term, and if it wasn't USAir, it would have been someone else. Look at Parker's MO. It has been his MO and continued to be his MO as he tried to merge with anyone who would have him, and this is true before the East and West merger and every day afterward up until the AMR transaction. The notion that the Nic is OK because the East was in BK and their pilots had no career expectations is an inane as telling the AMR pilots that they had no expectations as they were in BK too, so lets put the AWA pilots (and the East pilots) ahead of them too.

Have fun selling that to the AMR pilots.

A350
 
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Well said Dan,
But 350-
Those are all arguments that are well and good, but you avoided my question. Usair had an apathetic pilot group who saw their own contract amended 93 times (LOA93, right?) without any movement to require a vote from the membership as a whole. That's an MEC issue. I can count several ALPA groups that require a vote if compensation changes at all or changes by a certain percentage. Back room deal after back room deal passed and your group did nothing.

Now to what you avoided. The usair group did nothing to change ALPA merger policy until america west bought them and you figured out that date of hire would benefit you. And benefit you big time.

The policy changed well before. Why the apathy? Certainly after united in 2000. After psa, piedmont, trump, etc- you couldn't believe that usair would never be in another M&A.

Why did it take so long to get active? And do you realize that all your DOH gold standard means next to nothing when you never cared until it benefitted you.

WHEN DO USAIR PILOTS GET TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR PREVIOUS APATHY?
Why the impotent attempt to change things AFTER the fact?
 
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We took responsibility into our own hands and that's why we are Usapa!!!
Argue all you want the facts remain the Nic was a non starter and the west greed caused this mess. Plus a senile arbitraitor. You can place a 18 year never furloughed pilot next to a new hire. Ain't gonna work!!!!
Alpa wise up and changed the policy when they saw the mistake and abortion Nicolau caused the piloting profession. The east pilots did this to preserve the only thing we all bring to a merger: DATE OF HIRE!
 
St. Nic said:
We took responsibility into our own hands and that's why we are Usapa!!!
Argue all you want the facts remain the Nic was a non starter and the west greed caused this mess. Plus a senile arbitraitor. You can place a 18 year never furloughed pilot next to a new hire. Ain't gonna work!!!!
Alpa wise up and changed the policy when they saw the mistake and abortion Nicolau caused the piloting profession. The east pilots did this to preserve the only thing we all bring to a merger: DATE OF HIRE!
Click to expand...

Let me ask you something

When you finally hired, didn't you place a probation pilot 1 number junior to your 18 year never furloughed FO?
 

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