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Millionaire can't travel because he refuses to present ID

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canyonblue

Everyone loves Southwest
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
2,314
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]By DENNIS RODDY
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
02-MAR-05
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SAN FRANCISCO -- John Gilmore's splendid isolation began July 4, 2002, when, with defiance aforethought, he strolled to the Southwest Airlines counter at Oakland Airport and presented his ticket.

The gate agent asked for his ID.

Gilmore asked her why.

It is the law, she said.

Gilmore asked to see the law.

Nobody could produce a copy. To date, nobody has. The regulation that mandates ID at airports is "Sensitive Security Information." The law, as it turns out, is unavailable for inspection.

What started out as a weekend trip to Washington became a crawl through the courts in search of an answer to Gilmore's question: Why?

In post 9/11 America, asking "Why?" when someone from an airline asks for identification can start some interesting arguments. Gilmore, who learned to argue on the debate team in his hometown of Bradford, Pa., has started an argument that, should it reach its intended target, the U.S. Supreme Court, would turn the rules of national security on end, reach deep into the tug-of-war between private rights and public safety, and play havoc with the Department of Homeland Security.

At the heart of Gilmore's stubbornness is the worry about the thin line between safety and tyranny.

"Are they just basically saying we just can't travel without identity papers? If that's true, then I'd rather see us go through a real debate that says we want to introduce required identity papers in our society rather than trying to legislate it through the back door through regulations that say there's not any other way to get around," Gilmore said. "Basically what they want is a show of obedience."

As happens to the disobedient, Gilmore is grounded. He is rich _ he estimates his net worth at $30 million _ and cannot fly inside the United States. Nor can he ride Amtrak, rent a room at most major hotels, or easily clear security in the courthouses where his case, Gilmore v. Ashcroft, is to be heard. In a time when more and more people and places demand some form of government-issued identification, John Gilmore offers only his 49-year-old face: a study in stringy hair, high forehead, wire-rimmed glasses, Ho Chi Minh beard and the contrariness for which the dot.com culture is renowned.

"I think of myself as being under regional arrest," he said. Even with $30 million in the bank, regional arrest can be hard. He takes the bus to and from events at which he is applauded by less well-heeled computer techies who flew in from around the country after showing a boarding pass and one form of government-issued photo ID and arrived in rental cars that required a valid driver's license and one major credit card.

He was employee No. 5 at Sun Microsystems, which made Unix, the free software of the Web, the world standard. He japed the government by cracking its premier security code. He campaigned to keep the software that runs the Internet free of charge. After he left Sun, Gilmore started his own firm, sold it for more money than he seems to have bothered to count and has since devoted his time to giving it away to favored causes: drug law reform, a campaign to standardize computer voting machines and the Electronic Frontier Foundation, something of an ACLU for the Information Age.

To some, Gilmore's argument is redolent of the conspiracy theories from the black helicopter crowd.

"That's the problem. How it sounds," Gilmore said. He waved his hands like some Cassandra: "They have all these secret laws! The UFOs are coming! They have guards at every airport!" Yes, he said, there is a certain odd flavor to the notion that someone shouldn't have to show ID to board a plane, but with magnetometers at the gates, guards with security wands, fortified cockpit doors and sky marshals abounding, Gilmore is asking just how much citizens are giving up when they hand their driver's licenses to a third party, in this case an airline, where it is put into a database they cannot see, to meet a law that, as it turns out, they are not allowed to read.

Gilmore will show ID for an international flight because he doesn't expect to set the rules for other nations.

"I will show a passport to travel internationally. I'm not willing to show a passport to travel in my own country," Gilmore said. "I used to laugh at countries that had internal passports. And it's happened here and people don't even seem to know about it."

Rosa Parks did not ride that bus in Montgomery by accident. Several strategy meetings preceded the famous ride in which the founding mother of the civil rights movement boarded a bus and declined to sit in the back.

Gilmore's famous visit to two airline ticket counters in the Bay Area was charted out. He checked in with his lawyer. He kept notes. He booked a flight from Oakland, with its slightly cheaper fares, to Washington, D.C., where he planned to drop in on the offices of his member of Congress, Nancy Pelosi, to convey his growing concern about the amount of data the government is gathering from and about its citizens.

His reason for travel, he would later say, was "to petition the government for redress." That added First Amendment issues to a constitutional exercise that would also turn on the amendments against unreasonable search and seizure and the right to assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances.

Everything went pretty much according to expectations. That is to say, everything went to hell in a hurry.

As Gilmore tells it, he arrived at the gate two hours early, a paper ticket purchased through a travel agent in his hand. A Southwest agent asked for his ID. Gilmore, in turn, asked her if the ID requirement was an airline rule or a government rule. She didn't seem to know. Gilmore argued that if nobody could show him the law, he wasn't showing them an ID.

They reached a strange agreement for an argument about personal privacy: In lieu of showing ID, Gilmore would consent to an extra-close search, putting up with a pat-down in order to keep his personal identity to himself. He was wanded, patted down and sent along.

As Gilmore headed up the boarding ramp a security guard yanked him from line. According to court papers, a security agent named Reggie Wauls informed Gilmore he would not be flying that day.

"He said, 'I didn't let you fly because you said you had an ID and wouldn't show it,' " Gilmore said. "I asked, 'Does that mean if I'd left it at home I'd be on the plane?' He said, 'I didn't say that.' "

The Gilmore case is, if anything, about things unsaid. Gilmore _ and millions of other people _ are daily instructed to produce some manner of ID: a driver's license, a Social Security number, a phone number, date of birth. When Gilmore asked to see the rules explaining why his photo ID is necessary for airline security, his request was denied. The regulation under which the Transportation Safety Administration, an arm of the Department of Homeland Security, instructs the airlines to collect such identification is classified as "Sensitive Security Information." That, says Gilmore's lawyer, Jim Harrison, is the enigma of the case: "It's about the ability of the citizens of this country to be able to move about the country, to move about freely, without being subject to laws they can't see."
 
30 Million in the bank and flying SW. Why not a private jet? He wouldn't need to show ID on most private jets. Looks like someone with nothing better to do.
 
While I applaud the man's desire to see the laws that are for the people, I question his sincerity.

I typed a google search. Here's what I found: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=John+Gilmore&btnG=Google+Search


Now if I were to spend a little more time, I could find out a lot more about this guy.

I think the "guvmint" could get away with this, constitutionally, via the Interstate Commerce Clause; it's probably not well written and could be overturned if a plaintiff has the money to fight it.

If I were him, I'd learn to fly, buy my own plane, and screw the airlines. It's cheaper than fighting it.

Freedom isnt' free, but you don't necessarily have to die for it if you fight for it early and often.
 
Had to laugh last week. Standing in the veryyyy longggg security line behind me was Steve Balmer and his whole family. For those who do not know Balmer he is the CEO of Microsoft and I think he is up in the top 50 of the Fortune 400. Could not believe that he would subject his family to such an ordeal. You think that at the very least he would have a NetJets account. Talk about being cheap when you could easily afford the very best. Even his boss has figured that out by now.
 
Good on this guy. I am glad some one has the stones to stand up to the guvmint.

As far as standing in line at an airline, these people did not get that money by being stupid. How do you make a small fortune in aviation...start with a large one.
 
I think john needs to spend more time and money fighting terrorists than the government that made his liberty and wealth possible.
Isn't his argument the same as the person who says he has a right to drive without ID ?
He is free to move about the country on his feet or bicycle!!!
Too much money and free time.
 
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Doesn't the airline that sells any ticket have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. I believe that is in the fine print on the back of most tickets. Instead of saying that it is "The Law" couldn't the agent have said that it is company policy to compare the name on the ticket to a valid ID?

Sounds like this rich A-hole is barking up the wrong tree.

How would any flight crew react if you asked to see the jumpseaters ID and credentials and they asked you why or flat out refused? I'm fairly certain of your answer
 
race#53 said:
I think john needs to spend more time and money fighting terrorists than the government that made his liberty and wealth possible.
Isn't his argument the same as the person who says he has a right to drive without ID ?
He is free to move about the country on his feet or bicycle!!!
Too much money and free time.

What a load of nonsense ! You must be one of the brainwashed.

The People made freedom possible and in it's most loose terms this guy is stating that he, as one of them, doesn't remember giving any away and could someone please show him where and why, some of this freedom has been removed.

I say good for him, he has my full support, enough of this Draconian cloak and dagger, let's bring back profiling !!!!!!!
 
race#53 said:
I think john needs to spend more time and money fighting terrorists than the government that made his liberty and wealth possible.
Isn't his argument the same as the person who says he has a right to drive without ID ?
He is free to move about the country on his feet or bicycle!!!
Too much money and free time.

Amen!

Although I do disagree with alot of things the gov't does, this guy is being ridiculous. As a pilot who gets nervous every time the cockpit door is open during flight, I would be freaked out knowing just anyone could get on a flight without ID. What if one of these terrorist psychos made a reservation under a different name and just gets on a flight? There would be no way to track someone on a watch list or things like that. Know what I mean?
 
race#53 said:
I think john needs to spend more time and money fighting terrorists than the government that made his liberty and wealth possible.
Isn't his argument the same as the person who says he has a right to drive without ID ?
He is free to move about the country on his feet or bicycle!!!
Too much money and free time.

You're kidding, right? Citizen-soldiers made -and kept- this country's freedoms, not the government.

No, the right to drive isn't. It's a privilege, not a right, therefore you must have a license. Traveling on an airliner is a business agreement: They agree to fly you if you pay the money.

I applaud the guy for standing up. He is right; the government has slowly moved towards the requirement for having "papers" whenever you travel. That is about as un-American as you can get.

I'm not gonna knock bicycling: It's my favorite form of transportation after flying, but hardly practical for cross-country trips.

Too much money? How's that? The guy earned his dough the right way; making a product people want, and he created good jobs in the process. If this is how he wants to spend some of it, then more power to him.

C

Also: Profiling is fine and works well as long as you know who and what you are profiling. The Israeli's do it all the time, and they've never had a 9/11. I doubt there's anyone on this board stupid enough to believe the TSA does much to prevent terrorism in its current incarnation.
 
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I too agree with his stand, although it will be a pain in the rear for him.
IIRC, it used to be no ID required, but then the airlines got upset that people were swapping/selling their tickets and they started requiring IDs. I cannot remember if the FAA or the goverment ever made that a requirement, but one must wonder, since nobody seems to be able to find this in writing.

It is disconcerting, that there are rules and laws, yet we are not able to read or see them. Sort of how Dept. of Homeland Insecurity could deem a pilot a security risk, without telling him or her why.

It will be interesting to see, what will become of his argument, but more than likely, he will not get very far.
 
You guys are right about freedom. I don't think it's necessary to see someone's ID just to cross state lines, buy 10 tons of furtilizer, purchase a hand gun or a shotgun at Wal Mart, but I think it's totally justified to ask for ID to get on a 150000lb torpedo. Besides, I don't think it's terrible thing to make sure someone is who they say they are. Why isn't this guy upset when the cashier at sme store askes to see a picture ID when he buys something on his credit card.. heaven forbid.
 
And a Driver's License is really proof that somebody is who they say they are? Yeah, right. Some kids in my college dorm freshman year got busted by the Secret Service for making some pretty good fakes.
 
smellthejeta said:
And a Driver's License is really proof that somebody is who they say they are? Yeah, right. Some kids in my college dorm freshman year got busted by the Secret Service for making some pretty good fakes.
.
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Around here the kids go one step better. They fake their birth certificate, go to the DMV and get a REAL Tennessee driver's licence. . .
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.
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And a Driver's License is really proof that somebody is who they say they are? Yeah, right. Some kids in my college dorm freshman year got busted by the Secret Service for making some pretty good fakes.

You are right, the majority of the people out there really aren't who they say they are anyway. Maybe we just shouldn't ask. So next time I'm on your jumpseat I would appreciate you not ask me for MY ID. Just let me ride, no questions asked..

RIIIIIIIIGHT
 
race#53 said:
I think john needs to spend more time and money fighting terrorists than the government that made his liberty and wealth possible.
Whoa - the Government makes our liberty and wealth possible? First, our Government has been restricting our liberty far too much after September 11th and those of use who are wealthy have worked very hard for it. The government has not "given" me anything.

In my business I have a partner. He does nothing constructive, he wastes my time with lots of paperwork and takes nearly 50% of my revenue ( more than I get ). I work half the year to support this partner. If I cross this partner, or refuse to pay him his exhorbitant fees, he can deprive me of my liberty by putting me in jail. Yes, you already know - my partner is the US Government.

And before you say it, yes, we are considering relocating outside of the US.
 

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