Mil to Civ transition (low hours)

[Afterprop]

Take Another Tour ! (And make it a flying one)

When its time to leave, its time to leave. But have you really reached your time to leave yet? One more tour could pay big dividends -- upgrade to instructor, upgrade to evaluator (check airman), probably add another 1000 hours of PIC turbine to boot -- all of these can be priceless in a job hunt. These factors would also make you more valuable to a ANG/RE unit as well, and give you another 2-3 years to save / plan your escape. And its not like you are missing out on a big hiring boom right now. (BTW, it looks like I'm the only guy suggesting another tour, but another tour would solidify your numbers)

Tough, tough decision -- timing is everything. How many of your squadron mates are out there that can help get you that interview? Run the numbers several ways, then check where your heart is.

Good luck!
Props

 

[h25b]

The biggest mistake of my career was turning down the opportunity to go military and looking back it's the most secure (other when you're not getting shot at) flying job. Granted you have to worry about be fired upon, but at least you don't have to worry about being "fired" ...

I think the previous poster was correct, might be worth staying in unless your being constantly deployed.. It's just a bad time to be jumping over to the civilian side of things, especially if you don't already have something lined up.

 

[pilotyip]

RIF's

Not true h25b, the military is almost a capricious as the civilian community when it comes to the retention of pilots. Talk to pilots trained during Vietnam, in the mid to late 70's they told 1000's of them "Bye bye, with all of the unit stand downs we are over staffed on pilots, thanks for your service.” This was also done in the early 90's also with the "Cold War" peace dividend. They were called RIF's, staffing alignments, promotion adjustments, etc. Military staffing suffers from the politics of Washington. Plus you do not join the military to fly, in a 20-year career most pilots average about 200 hours per year.

 

[Hdawg]

Take Another Tour ! (And make it a flying one)

Use extreme caution on taking another tour...I think I was in your same boat so to speak, defered pilot, desk job for 4.5 years then went to UPT. Of course "they" said it was time for a staff tour and I said " I haven't even met my gates (8 yr).... Long story short I got out at 13 yrs;however, hours were not a factor since I was averaging about 700 a year for the last 5 years. Active line flying (Guard/Reserve) is what you should look for not the group/wing training guy attached to fly with xyz.

 

[PIO]

Great advice everyone, I appreciate it. To those who say "stay in" you're probably right but I'm gettin out!

Now I need your help in spending my GI bill. Its worth about $35K and I can use it for flight training.

Should I use it at a place like ATP or Phoenix East and burn the whole thing getting every rating out there? How important is the CFI thing anyway?

Should I just get my ATP, get current, and start applying?

Anyone know of an FBO where I can get this stuff done cheaper than at the training academies?

Thanks

 

[skiddriver]

Using your GI Bill depends a lot on where you live and where you're willing to train,

ATP (as in All ATPs) does not accept GI Bill, because they are not a Part 141 VA approved provider.

You need to contact the state veterans affairs office in the state you want to train and ask for a list of approved schools. Some states have them posted online.

The VA has a list of course, and they've been thinking about posting it online for many years. Someday they may actually do it. If you call them, they'll confirm a specific school's eligibility, but won't actually send you the entire list.

The bigger schools advertise their eligibility, so you can Google some of them up as well. Search for Part 141 schools first, since that is a prerequisite to become a VA approved provider.

Good luck. Remember that GI Bill will only pay 60% of the APPROVED cost (and 100% of your written test cost), and that you pay everything up front, and the VA reimburses you on their timeline.

 

[PIO]

Great info Skiddriver!

 

[Marty Moose]

I think the ANG/RES unit is your best option, even if it means relocation, why pay out of your own pocket if Uncle Sam will flip the bill.

 

[Bjammin]

I have a good friend that just got out as a Major in the Marines. He only had 1500Hrs (Most of it PIC) and all single engine (Harrier and T-45A). He got hired with Cathay Pacific as a Second Officer. Not a bad gig to start off with. You would have to live in Hong Kong for a while and wouldn't log any TO's or LNDG's for a few years, but eventually you would move up to First Officer in about 3 years, then on to Captain in another 7-10. It's not nessesarly the best option out there, but it would get you with an international airline and eventually you could be back in the states making some good money. S/O's in Hong Kong make about 80K US, that includes housing and retirement, and they have great schedules. Lots of time to use your travel benifits.

It's just a thought an an option available to you. Cathay looks to be hiring for many years to come.

 

[dudemize]

Atp

Another thing to look into that I just found out about is getting your ATP/737 type concurrently. The Higher Power (www.jetcrew.com) type rating course is $7400, using your 60% VA benefits that leaves you with about $3000 out of pocket. If you show up with your ATP written completed, you will get your ATP along with the 737 type (the 737 check is done to ATP standards). Going to All ATPS and getting your ATP by itself would be about $2000, so for an extra grand you get the type rating as well. Something to think about.

 

[Afterprop]

My $.02

PIO,
The experience at HPA is well worth the cost and time. It is a two week course, (1 week ground school, 1 week simulator) that requires at least 60 hours home study before you show up. Plus for us mil types, or ex-mil types , it is a good introduction to civilian flying, Boeing checklist, etc. There are differences in flying for the USAF, and others. Even the different terminology sometimes can be a small detriment . . . "Go" versus "V1" for example. (It took me 4 months to quit saying "torque" or "inch pounds." Also, HPA is about networking as well as getting a type rating. One of the guys in my HPA class was able to get me an interview with my current company . . . 9 months later; I have a Captain class slot.

Not sure about your timing, but unless you're still 18 months to 2 years out, you're behind the power curve. Add power, and get busy networking, applying, and becoming smarter about the airline industry. (I knew I was retiring at 20, but procrastinated until the last 6 months . . . should have, could have been smarter -- but for those that know me, well that was somewhat to be expected.)

You've already mentioned currency . . . gotta have it. Get it!
Good luck.
Keep 'em level~n~true.
'Props

 

[Otto]

Guard YES...Regional NO!!

PIO,
I think the only thing hurting you is not having crossed the magic 1,000 turbine PIC threshold. I know 1,550 hours isn't a lot compared to some guys that are out there but military time in a heavy will take you far. We just had a guy in our squadron hired by Fedex with 1,500 hours of total time. I know that gives civillian guys heartburn but right or wrong, that's the way it is. If I were you, I would get into a Guard/Reserve C-130 unit as that will be the fastest way to get that remaining PIC time as well as allowing you to pay the bills.
As someone flying for a regional, I would say don't mess with it. With more regionals fighting for fewer and fewer flights and with the cost of fuel making the RJ increasingly cost inefficient, I think upgrade times are going to get longer as pilots from different airlines scramble to underbid each other like birds flighting for the scraps from a piece of bread. I enjoy aspects of the regionals but I think it's going to get very ugly in the next few years. Good luck!
Otto

 

[PlaneStupid]

PIO, It is good that you are planning ahead. Hopefully you didn't get the shaft from the ex wife and still have a bunch of cash handy because you are going to need it. Check out the salaries of the bottom feeder regional jobs and you may think twice about getting out or going into an aviation career at all. If you must get out, you might be better off in a non-flying career depending upon your degree and work experience in the AF. This way you can afford to fly and eat too.

.02

 

[Phrogboy]

PIO,
I am in the same boat as you as I transition over. However, I managed to get lucky and make the switch from active Navy to AFR. I am truely thankful for it as it has been a great, if not interesting experience.

I used my GI Bill for quite a few ratings and it has helped a little so far. If you are looking to use it, and money is an issue, then you also have to take into account all the ground training that is involved under a 141 school. A friend of mine was working with me on my CFI/MEI, and he would not have charged me for much of the ground training. Unfortunately, due to the flight school at which he worked and the VA, he was forced to charge for the majority of it (I only had to pay/log the minimum ground training). Apparently, all 141 schools that are elligible to recieve VA funds can and do get inspected. They then have to prove that the 141 course guidelines are followed and paid for when a 141 completion certificate is given to a student. Just keep that in mind when figuring out the costs and choosing a flight school to train at. That being said, you do not have to neccessarily complete a 141 course either to take the practical exams, you just need someone to sign you off.

Good luck

 

[Ben Stiller]

You really need the PIC time...1,000 hrs. If not, I can't imagine you can get with anyone but a regional. 2+ years to upgrade then 2+ years to get the time.

Just my experience.

Good luck