Midwest grievance

[FSIGRAD]

To: All Midwest and Skyway Employees
Date: January 20, 2009
From: Corporate Communications
Subject: Arbitration Ruling

As you know, on Sept. 3, 2008, Midwest Airlines entered into an airline services agreement with Republic Airlines to operate a fleet of Embraer 170 aircraft under the Midwest Connect brand. The Air Line Pilots Association subsequently filed a grievance, contending that the arrangement was a subcontract that violated our collective bargaining agreement with the pilot group. The grievance was submitted to the System Board of Adjustment for review. The board has issued its decision denying the grievance.

The board concluded that our arrangement with Republic Airlines to operate the Embraer 170s is permissible under our collective bargaining agreement with the pilot group. Specifically, the board found that the arrangement is a legitimate codeshare agreement, and further found that our collective bargaining agreement with the pilots provides Midwest the unrestricted right to engage in codeshares. Accordingly, the board ruled there was no violation of the labor agreement

 

[labbats]

ALPA lost a grievance based on their contract language being too vague? Surely you jest!


All kidding aside this is bad news for every one of us, but particularly Midwest guys right now. I hope the best for all of you.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Do we ever win in arbitration? In my experience, even when we do win an arbitration, the company still finds out a way to make us lose. This is just about everywhere. Management used to have ethics and honor the spirit of contracts. Now they look for every possible loophole to f*ck us.

 

[CitationLover]

pay attention delta, united, us airways, american, <insert narrowbody (>100 seat) airline here>...

its coming for you. we were the cheap test.

 

[GOULET!]

Wow, what a shock the Midwest pilots lost the grievance (insert sarcasim). How have the load factors been there lately? With everybody else reporting big 4Q losses I can't see Midwest's performance being too stellar.

 

[lookin4better]

well the commuter pilots are RAH can tell people they fly for Midwest...

 

[Windsor]

This is very bad for everyone

Citation is right! This is the first of many possible screwings. Note to all Unions, pilot groups, ect..... IRONCLAD SCOPE and Codeshare agreements.


The swirl down the toilet of this career.....continues.

 

[slackass]

Rode on a Midwest/Repuplic flight last week. Asked how things were. FO responded the Midwest flying sucks but at least it beats furloughs. Bet the mainline guys would think otherwise.

 

[Propsync]

Not as bad as when the 130 or so left agree to RJ rates for the 717. The company has the company guys on the fence. Take it or leave it. Name me a pilot group that has ever said leave it and shut it down. Midwest pilots could easily kill narrowbody rates in one fell swoop.

 

[ultrarunner]

Midwest pilots could easily kill narrowbody rates in one fell swoop.

Not really Propsync. While ALPA and pilot groups will certainly disagree with this, the comparison between MEH vs. DAL/NWA really isn't valid because of the size of the MEH operation.

A 6 plane or so operation, flying a limited network, etc... is just not going to factor into a valid salary benchmark study. MEH is just too far off the curve because of the size of operation.

HOWEVER, with that being said, if you look at the DC-9 rates currently in place, MEH is right in there...

NWA, the largest DC-9 operator pays:

$133 to $153 CA. Yr 1-12
$52 to $99 FO. Yr. 1-12

MEH, the smallest operator of the type:

$82 to $138 CA. Yr. 1-12 (max $153 Yr. 16)
$41 to $91 FO. Yr 1-12 (max $100 Yr. 16)

The only big discrepancy would be a MEH FO that updgraded to CA within the first couple of years on the list, which is essentially a non-issue.

I'd say the rates for MEH, given the size of the outfit is quite competitive.

Now, it will remain to be seen if an MEH pilot ever flies the E-170, and if so, if the MEH MEC would be sucessful in holding on to those rates on that airframe.

 

[Propsync]

I get what you're saying Ultra, MEH payrates right now are close to what everyone else is doing. But to get the 170's to the Midwest certificate involves a single payrate of something like 37/76, for either aircraft. Who at a negotiating committee elsewhere wants to haggle about DC9/717/80/737/320 payrates when somebody out there is doing it for regional rates?

 

[ultrarunner]

Yeah, I hear ya Prop. Here's the way I see it....TPG, I suspect, wants the 170's on MEH's certificate. The operator (MEH) can's get rid of the remaining 717's as it's the only airframe they have operating authority on, and still keep the certificate.

So...Now TPG needs the 170's on certificate. But, as you mentioned, they can't be on certificate until the Mgt. and the MEC agree on the pay rates.

Now you're at the negotiating table, and it's here that the MEC may have what little negotiating power is left as TPG want's this wrapped up pretty quickly, so as to turn MEH into a feed-operation

The MEC won't necessarily agree to the RAH rates, but TPG needs to park the 717's....and around they go....

You're not in BK, so you can't ask for a 1113. So now it goes to arbitration (assuming no agreement). And all that takes significant amounts of time that TPG likely doesn't want to waste.

I'm not sure how many 717's TPG can return and still keep operating authority, but I suspect the MEH operation can be shrunk down to just a couple of planes while this all shakes out.

 

[Propsync]

I hope the union will say no, they shut it down, and the aircraft stay at Republic. I don't see where Delta or anyone else needs another feeder. TPG/NW have taken a bath on Midwest, I can't imagine how many lifetimes it would take to make back the money they lost.

On the other side, I can't imagine being a 20 year captain from Midwest flying a 170 for regional rates just to have a job flying airplanes. The only thing TH was able to do was to turn a once revered airline into scorched earth.

 

[ultrarunner]

Well, one can only hope Prop. But every other union has voted to take it up the rear, including the MEH pilots. Those MEH pilots left still need to pay the bills...

It'll be painful to watch to be sure....

 

[CitationLover]

I hope the union will say no, they shut it down, and the aircraft stay at Republic. I don't see where Delta or anyone else needs another feeder. TPG/NW have taken a bath on Midwest, I can't imagine how many lifetimes it would take to make back the money they lost.

On the other side, I can't imagine being a 20 year captain from Midwest flying a 170 for regional rates just to have a job flying airplanes. The only thing TH was able to do was to turn a once revered airline into scorched earth.

How has NW "taken a bath"? Their own internal estimate (given to our mec from theirs) was a massive AAI presence in MKE would have cost them up to $10bln over 5 years in lost revenues from MKE/DTW/MSP. Seems to me it was a simple $250mln insurance policy.

I doubt TPG wants 170's on the certficate. They want 190's but want it at a 170 rate. I can only hope the remaining pilots do not sell us out. From what I hear on our new daily negotiating updates, that doesn't appear to be the case so far. Whose to say DAL/NWA didn't help TPG pony up the other money to try their little experiment on MEH before pulling it on the new DAL.

 

[samballs]

just wondering not trying to be rude, but is TPG trying to make MEH the next regional carrier for DL?

 

[CitationLover]

just wondering not trying to be rude, but is TPG trying to make MEH the next regional carrier for DL?

why? ALL of the current DCI carriers are cheaper and bigger to begin with.


it's starting.....see what united and aer lingus are trying to pull.......

 

[FSIGRAD]

Another question is if TPG wants 170's on the MEH certificate, where are they going to get them? They can't dry lease the current RAH airplanes. Are they going to spend the money on new airplanes?

 

[BeachBummer]

just wondering not trying to be rude, but is TPG trying to make MEH the next regional carrier for DL?

I think someone said it before. Not a connection carrier, but a code share. 100st flying at 70st rates, 100 or so e90's= by by dc 9s. run through the big scope hole since they aren't a "connection" it's a "code share".

!!hope that it doesn't happen!!

 

[ultrarunner]

It is happening!

 

[hockeypilot44]

Another question is if TPG wants 170's on the MEH certificate, where are they going to get them? They can't dry lease the current RAH airplanes. Are they going to spend the money on new airplanes?

Who is going to protect you if this happens? The IBT? It wouldn't be the first time BB blatantly violates the Republic pilot contract.

 

[ultrarunner]

I think TPG's agreement with RAH has provisions for the existing E170's to be placed on MEH's Operating Certificate.

All sorts of agreements have to be negotiated before then, since the MEH pilots would have to fly them, but it was my take that TPG had the "OPTION" at the completion of the existing contract term, to assume leases on the E170.

I don't have the agreement handy, but I'm sure a MEH driver will chime in on that.

 

[maxblast72]

Fornaro has already said recently several times that Airtran was very pleased with the revenue performance of the MKE flying during the summer of 2008, and that we would be back with more flying in the summer of 2009. TPG doesn't even matter anymore. MKE is just going to be a second front on the Airtran/Delta battle. The question is what airplane does Delta want to use to defend against growth Airtran has planned for MKE.

 

[Colonel Savage]

Fornaro has already said recently several times that Airtran was very pleased with the revenue performance of the MKE flying during the summer of 2008, and that we would be back with more flying in the summer of 2009. TPG doesn't even matter anymore. MKE is just going to be a second front on the Airtran/Delta battle. The question is what airplane does Delta want to use to defend against growth Airtran has planned for MKE.

What are AAI's plans for the BWI mini-hub, Max? Any expansion/possible crew base plans there?

 

[PCL_128]

What are AAI's plans for the BWI mini-hub, Max? Any expansion/possible crew base plans there?

Still talk of a crew base, but nothing official yet.

 

[Colonel Savage]

Still talk of a crew base, but nothing official yet.

Thanks PCL. How large an operation is BWI for AirTran?

 

[maxblast72]

Thanks PCL. How large an operation is BWI for AirTran?

I believe during summer of 2008, Airtran had between 60 and 70 departures a day out of BWI. I have heard two numbers for when a base makes sense financially. One number I heard is 57 departures a day and the other is 17 RON aircraft. We have minimum 8-10 airplanes RON in BWI everynight. One parked at each of our 7 gates and 2 moved over to the hard stand at the end of D terminal.

Destinations out of BWI include: PWM, BTV, ROC, DAY, BOS, MKE, DFW, LAX, SEA, MCO, ATL, TPA, RSW, FLL, MIA, SJU, CUN, and SRQ. Some of these cities are summer schedule only. Seems like they are probably considering a base with the amount of flying we are doing out of BWI. They won't pull the trigger until it makes sense financially.

 

[eightdriver]

If the plan is to have us fly 170/190's then they would be trying harder to get a pay rate settled on. They would be trying to entice us with promises of aircraft deliveries, fast upgrades, snapbacks...etc. We have seen none of this. Our pilots would be more open to pay concessions if we knew what the F---ing plan was!!! I don't think there is a plan and all this bull$hit is going down so TH can say "we tried to work with the pilot's, but they wouldn't work with us" This way Tim once again come out smelling like flowers and we are the a$$holes. IMPO 8

 

[Colonel Savage]

I believe during summer of 2008, Airtran had between 60 and 70 departures a day out of BWI. I have heard two numbers for when a base makes sense financially. One number I heard is 57 departures a day and the other is 17 RON aircraft. We have minimum 8-10 airplanes RON in BWI everynight. One parked at each of our 7 gates and 2 moved over to the hard stand at the end of D terminal.

Destinations out of BWI include: PWM, BTV, ROC, DAY, BOS, MKE, DFW, LAX, SEA, MCO, ATL, TPA, RSW, FLL, MIA, SJU, CUN, and SRQ. Some of these cities are summer schedule only. Seems like they are probably considering a base with the amount of flying we are doing out of BWI. They won't pull the trigger until it makes sense financially.

Thanks Max. 9-10 flights a day out of each gate is good utlization. Need more gates if you're going to expand further!

 

[fam62c]

If the plan is to have us fly 170/190's then they would be trying harder to get a pay rate settled on. They would be trying to entice us with promises of aircraft deliveries, fast upgrades, snapbacks...etc. We have seen none of this. Our pilots would be more open to pay concessions if we knew what the F---ing plan was!!! I don't think there is a plan and all this bull$hit is going down so TH can say "we tried to work with the pilot's, but they wouldn't work with us" This way Tim once again come out smelling like flowers and we are the a$$holes. IMPO 8

Nobody will ever know what the "plan" is at Midwest because there has never been a plan; this has always been the problem. TH never had a vision of what the airline should be five or ten years down the road so there was always this hodge-podge of random, short-sighted decisions being made without a solid framework for the future. They got away with in the 1990's when fuel was cheap, planes were cheap, competition in MKE was limited and the economy was on fire but they never really made a plan to adjust for the post 9/11 world. When AAI started knocking on the door (quietly at first) TH decided instantly that he would rather burn the place to the ground than even discuss the mechanics of a friendly merger. The basis was there for a very sound combined operation/network that made sense but TH couldn't look forward far enough to see the merits, he could only think of himself and his desire to keep total control over what he considered "his" airline. He blamed AAI for being "hostile with a capital H" but it only came to that after he refused to make an effort to sit down and even discuss the possibility of a deal.

It's sad to think about what could have been and then look at what ME has actually become. It's strange that everybody in the local press and government that backed TH and demonized AAI has been silent since TPG took over and dismantled ME/Skyway. I specifically remember Joe Leonard stating in the Milwaukee paper that job losses and service cuts would be the result of a private equity takeover; he hit the nail on the head with that one. Ultimately I would have to say that at some point DAL will lose interest in MKE considering they now have at least six hubs that are larger and more important. I don't see TPG making it with Midwest as a stand-alone carrier rather than part of the Delta network. In one year they have already lost a significant part of the MKE market share that it took 25 years to build. AAI may end up being the largest carrier in MKE and instead of being part of the action ME will either be gone or be another certificate in the Republic collection flying RJ's for somebody else; an unfortunate and unnecessary ending.