Midwest grievance

FSIGRAD

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To: All Midwest and Skyway Employees
Date: January 20, 2009
From: Corporate Communications
Subject: Arbitration Ruling

As you know, on Sept. 3, 2008, Midwest Airlines entered into an airline services agreement with Republic Airlines to operate a fleet of Embraer 170 aircraft under the Midwest Connect brand. The Air Line Pilots Association subsequently filed a grievance, contending that the arrangement was a subcontract that violated our collective bargaining agreement with the pilot group. The grievance was submitted to the System Board of Adjustment for review. The board has issued its decision denying the grievance.

The board concluded that our arrangement with Republic Airlines to operate the Embraer 170s is permissible under our collective bargaining agreement with the pilot group. Specifically, the board found that the arrangement is a legitimate codeshare agreement, and further found that our collective bargaining agreement with the pilots provides Midwest the unrestricted right to engage in codeshares. Accordingly, the board ruled there was no violation of the labor agreement
 

labbats

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ALPA lost a grievance based on their contract language being too vague? Surely you jest!


All kidding aside this is bad news for every one of us, but particularly Midwest guys right now. I hope the best for all of you.
 

hockeypilot44

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Do we ever win in arbitration? In my experience, even when we do win an arbitration, the company still finds out a way to make us lose. This is just about everywhere. Management used to have ethics and honor the spirit of contracts. Now they look for every possible loophole to f*ck us.
 

CitationLover

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pay attention delta, united, us airways, american, <insert narrowbody (>100 seat) airline here>...

its coming for you. we were the cheap test.
 

GOULET!

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Wow, what a shock the Midwest pilots lost the grievance (insert sarcasim). How have the load factors been there lately? With everybody else reporting big 4Q losses I can't see Midwest's performance being too stellar.
 

lookin4better

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well the commuter pilots are RAH can tell people they fly for Midwest... :)
 

Windsor

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This is very bad for everyone

Citation is right! This is the first of many possible screwings. Note to all Unions, pilot groups, ect..... IRONCLAD SCOPE and Codeshare agreements.


The swirl down the toilet of this career.....continues.
 

slackass

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Rode on a Midwest/Repuplic flight last week. Asked how things were. FO responded the Midwest flying sucks but at least it beats furloughs. Bet the mainline guys would think otherwise.
 

Propsync

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Not as bad as when the 130 or so left agree to RJ rates for the 717. The company has the company guys on the fence. Take it or leave it. Name me a pilot group that has ever said leave it and shut it down. Midwest pilots could easily kill narrowbody rates in one fell swoop.
 

ultrarunner

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Midwest pilots could easily kill narrowbody rates in one fell swoop.
Not really Propsync. While ALPA and pilot groups will certainly disagree with this, the comparison between MEH vs. DAL/NWA really isn't valid because of the size of the MEH operation.

A 6 plane or so operation, flying a limited network, etc... is just not going to factor into a valid salary benchmark study. MEH is just too far off the curve because of the size of operation.

HOWEVER, with that being said, if you look at the DC-9 rates currently in place, MEH is right in there...

NWA, the largest DC-9 operator pays:

$133 to $153 CA. Yr 1-12
$52 to $99 FO. Yr. 1-12

MEH, the smallest operator of the type:

$82 to $138 CA. Yr. 1-12 (max $153 Yr. 16)
$41 to $91 FO. Yr 1-12 (max $100 Yr. 16)

The only big discrepancy would be a MEH FO that updgraded to CA within the first couple of years on the list, which is essentially a non-issue.

I'd say the rates for MEH, given the size of the outfit is quite competitive.

Now, it will remain to be seen if an MEH pilot ever flies the E-170, and if so, if the MEH MEC would be sucessful in holding on to those rates on that airframe.
 

Propsync

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I get what you're saying Ultra, MEH payrates right now are close to what everyone else is doing. But to get the 170's to the Midwest certificate involves a single payrate of something like 37/76, for either aircraft. Who at a negotiating committee elsewhere wants to haggle about DC9/717/80/737/320 payrates when somebody out there is doing it for regional rates?
 

ultrarunner

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Yeah, I hear ya Prop. Here's the way I see it....TPG, I suspect, wants the 170's on MEH's certificate. The operator (MEH) can's get rid of the remaining 717's as it's the only airframe they have operating authority on, and still keep the certificate.

So...Now TPG needs the 170's on certificate. But, as you mentioned, they can't be on certificate until the Mgt. and the MEC agree on the pay rates.

Now you're at the negotiating table, and it's here that the MEC may have what little negotiating power is left as TPG want's this wrapped up pretty quickly, so as to turn MEH into a feed-operation

The MEC won't necessarily agree to the RAH rates, but TPG needs to park the 717's....and around they go....

You're not in BK, so you can't ask for a 1113. So now it goes to arbitration (assuming no agreement). And all that takes significant amounts of time that TPG likely doesn't want to waste.

I'm not sure how many 717's TPG can return and still keep operating authority, but I suspect the MEH operation can be shrunk down to just a couple of planes while this all shakes out.
 

Propsync

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I hope the union will say no, they shut it down, and the aircraft stay at Republic. I don't see where Delta or anyone else needs another feeder. TPG/NW have taken a bath on Midwest, I can't imagine how many lifetimes it would take to make back the money they lost.

On the other side, I can't imagine being a 20 year captain from Midwest flying a 170 for regional rates just to have a job flying airplanes. The only thing TH was able to do was to turn a once revered airline into scorched earth.
 

ultrarunner

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Well, one can only hope Prop. But every other union has voted to take it up the rear, including the MEH pilots. Those MEH pilots left still need to pay the bills...

It'll be painful to watch to be sure....
 

CitationLover

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I hope the union will say no, they shut it down, and the aircraft stay at Republic. I don't see where Delta or anyone else needs another feeder. TPG/NW have taken a bath on Midwest, I can't imagine how many lifetimes it would take to make back the money they lost.

On the other side, I can't imagine being a 20 year captain from Midwest flying a 170 for regional rates just to have a job flying airplanes. The only thing TH was able to do was to turn a once revered airline into scorched earth.
How has NW "taken a bath"? Their own internal estimate (given to our mec from theirs) was a massive AAI presence in MKE would have cost them up to $10bln over 5 years in lost revenues from MKE/DTW/MSP. Seems to me it was a simple $250mln insurance policy.

I doubt TPG wants 170's on the certficate. They want 190's but want it at a 170 rate. I can only hope the remaining pilots do not sell us out. From what I hear on our new daily negotiating updates, that doesn't appear to be the case so far. Whose to say DAL/NWA didn't help TPG pony up the other money to try their little experiment on MEH before pulling it on the new DAL.
 
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samballs

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just wondering not trying to be rude, but is TPG trying to make MEH the next regional carrier for DL?
 

CitationLover

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just wondering not trying to be rude, but is TPG trying to make MEH the next regional carrier for DL?
why? ALL of the current DCI carriers are cheaper and bigger to begin with.


it's starting.....see what united and aer lingus are trying to pull.......
 

FSIGRAD

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Another question is if TPG wants 170's on the MEH certificate, where are they going to get them? They can't dry lease the current RAH airplanes. Are they going to spend the money on new airplanes?
 

BeachBummer

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just wondering not trying to be rude, but is TPG trying to make MEH the next regional carrier for DL?
I think someone said it before. Not a connection carrier, but a code share. 100st flying at 70st rates, 100 or so e90's= by by dc 9s. run through the big scope hole since they aren't a "connection" it's a "code share".

!!hope that it doesn't happen!!
 
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