Midwest Flight Reductions Announced

[CitationLover]

Not to change the subject

The numbers are out, 115 furloughs, in addition to the 35 furloughed already.

still 150 too many, but it is 60 less than anticipated.

 

[FlyWolf]

I know CL, this will be my third. I heard they got 100 sick calls over the weekend, it was a big mess.

 

[flying zephyr]

rumor, speculation, whatever

Call it what you will, but I had heard a while ago that our ranks were going to be reduced greatly for an eventual merger sometime next year with the new "DELTA". I was told that this is being done partially to integrate fewer ME pilots onto the list and now half the captain ranks will be integrated as FOs. Also that for us furloughed guys our "career expectations" will be so low that we will not be offered a recall to the new carrier. Hence, we will be cast off into the great unknown. I had always thought this to be just rumors, but the coffin lid is closing and I see more of the nails being pounded every day. My reasons for denying this were denial for which I am stupid, but also that somewhere along the way, TPG has to make some cash. Now I am starting to believe everything about this "rumor".

 

[9rj9]

TPG doesn't have to make any money. They never intended to, they get paid by NWA and Delta on the back side when Midwest goes under. It was a cheap way for Delta to dominate the upper midwest, plus demise of Midwest gives tax breaks and right downs against profits. You were just a pawn in the game, bad timing, I guess you could've supported Airtran, but who knows.

 

[fam62c]

Call it what you will, but I had heard a while ago that our ranks were going to be reduced greatly for an eventual merger sometime next year with the new "DELTA". I was told that this is being done partially to integrate fewer ME pilots onto the list and now half the captain ranks will be integrated as FOs. Also that for us furloughed guys our "career expectations" will be so low that we will not be offered a recall to the new carrier. Hence, we will be cast off into the great unknown. I had always thought this to be just rumors, but the coffin lid is closing and I see more of the nails being pounded every day. My reasons for denying this were denial for which I am stupid, but also that somewhere along the way, TPG has to make some cash. Now I am starting to believe everything about this "rumor".

NWA and DAL are trying to reduce the number of fleet types and the number of employees; why would they go through all the merger related hassles to add tiny Midwest, another airplane type (sub-type anyway) and a bunch of senior employees? That wouldn't make good business sense if they are eliminating the brand. NWA/DAL/TPG will just transfer anything of value to NWA/DAL and their connection carriers (it just happened with MKE-LAX) and then the remaining shell of Midwest will be liquidated and NWA/TPG will be out from underneath it. There's not going to be any merger here and I don't see any way Midwest can continue to operate on it's own.

The only question now is how to transfer the pieces with value to NWA/DAL so it will pass scrutiny in the bankruptcy process and not generate claims by creditors. All I can see being transferred is the LGA/DCA slots, some airport gate/facility leases and some ground support equipment. Maybe what's left of Skyway will be retained as a division (or independent company owned by the creditors) to provide ground support functions. The 717's, most of the Midwest employees and the Midwest off-airport facilities are probably going to be liquidated. Nothing else makes any economic sense in this environment; at this point TPG needs a quick exit strategy to minimize further losses.

 

[Morning Wood]

I don't really understand why if the whole intent is for TPG to pull the plug, why not do it now? Why burn through whatever cash is left and put on this dog and pony show of "restructuring"? What's sick is that they want the people who are being furloughed NOV1 to stick around until that day.

 

[fam62c]

I don't really understand why if the whole intent is for TPG to pull the plug, why not do it now? Why burn through whatever cash is left and put on this dog and pony show of "restructuring"? What's sick is that they want the people who are being furloughed NOV1 to stick around until that day.

That's a good question and I don't have an answer, only guesses. They may be waiting to see if and to what extent the lessors, vendors and unions will bite on concessions. They may feel that if they can maintian a going concern with below market rate costs that the business may sell as a whole. Another thought is that they need more time to figure out how to move the important pieces to NWA/DAL without creating any additional antitrust issues that could slow that deal. Additionally, there may be an attempt to do some "face saving" at TPG so they are making a show of a herculean attempt at restructuring to "save" the company. If the vendors and or unions balk they will have a scapegoat when they pull the plug.

I don't know when the end will come but I just don't see any way that Midwest will ever be able to operate profitably in it's proposed form. The people at TPG aren't dumb, maybe they have another way out; we'll just have to wait and see. At some point even the catlike Midwest will use up it's nine lives.

 

[eightdriver]

Not to change the subject

The numbers are out, 115 furloughs, in addition to the 35 furloughed already.

Where did you get this info from??

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

My CEO was wondering if they would fly more MKE-IND with either 717s or the Skywest RJs and hook up with NWA to go longer distances, like the West Coast and Mexico?

I hope for the best for the MidEx crews. A merger would be the best-they would all end up as DAL/NWA pilots.

cliff
MCI

 

[Propsync]

Hi!

My CEO was wondering if they would fly more MKE-IND with either 717s or the Skywest RJs and hook up with NWA to go longer distances, like the West Coast and Mexico?

I hope for the best for the MidEx crews. A merger would be the best-they would all end up as DAL/NWA pilots.

cliff
MCI

Beyond doubtful. That's what DTW and MSP are for.

 

[maxblast72]

I guess Airtran and Northwest are gearing up for some more battles like Indy, Flint, and Detroit.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080723/nyw072.html?.v=101

 

[Max Powers]

And do you think any of us had any saying in this?

Your union sure didn't support it. Didn't they perform an "informational picket"? But your right at the end of the day you/they had no say. It all came down to the offer 17 bucks and screw you employees over or 16.25 for some cash and mostly stock. Pretty easy answer to that question if all you care about is money.

 

[CitationLover]

Your union sure didn't support it. Didn't they perform an "informational picket"? But your right at the end of the day you/they had no say. It all came down to the offer 17 bucks and screw you employees over or 16.25 for some cash and mostly stock. Pretty easy answer to that question if all you care about is money.

since institutional investors own 90+% of most airlines the answer is yes, all they care about is money.

can't knock TH on this...his shareholders made out quite well with this deal versus what they would have had with the AAI deal.

 

[Wesb737fo]

since institutional investors own 90+% of most airlines the answer is yes, all they care about is money.

can't knock TH on this...his shareholders made out quite well with this deal versus what they would have had with the AAI deal.

Yeah...sure...TH made out. As far as the shareholders go, maybe they're better off......but we'll never know. As I said before, I never was for that deal anyway, but as usual, it was a Sh!tty deal for the employees. Were you able to find a job somewhere?

 

[CitationLover]

Yeah...sure...TH made out. As far as the shareholders go, maybe they're better off......but we'll never know. As I said before, I never was for that deal anyway, but as usual, it was a Sh!tty deal for the employees. Were you able to find a job somewhere?

Whats AAI stock price now? Take .5631 of that and add $7 to it compared to $17. The $17 has won ever since the deal.

No aviation job yet, slim pickens.

 

[Wesb737fo]

Whats AAI stock price now? Take .5631 of that and add $7 to it compared to $17. The $17 has won ever since the deal.

No aviation job yet, slim pickens.

Well...short term ..sure....not many airline stocks that aren't stinking up the joint currently ( the usual SWA, UPS, Fedex disclaimer). But if AAI survives this mess, grows and the stock goes up a year or two from now....who knows what the better deal was?

Personally, I'm fairly pessimistic about the state of the nation's economy anyway. I may have to look overseas if I want to keep flying for a living.

 

[CitationLover]

Well...short term ..sure....not many airline stocks that aren't stinking up the joint currently ( the usual SWA, UPS, Fedex disclaimer). But if AAI survives this mess, grows and the stock goes up a year or two from now....who knows what the better deal was?

Personally, I'm fairly pessimistic about the state of the nation's economy anyway. I may have to look overseas if I want to keep flying for a living.

fwiw

institutional investors typically do not hold stocks for years at a time.

airline stocks are horrible investments. ask warren buffett.

 

[metroplex]

friend from MEH told me they might keep 5 md 80s, any thruth?

 

[sitnresrv]

A union conference call last night confirmed that all the 80 flying will cease as of September 7th. No plans on keeping them. Word is that we will be left with 23 717's, 20 line flying, 1 spare and 2 possible charter planes.

 

[ultrarunner]

Seems like a massive amount of overhead for a 20 airplane main-line operation.