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Midway USAIR??

KingAirer

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Im really asking this under true ignorance, But was is the purpose of buying a company like midway. Theyre not even flying the equipment that they will be for U. U isnt hurting for pilots as the have lots on furlough. Why not give the contract to a WO or to an already contracted company such as CCAir. is it because they would go for the j4j easily???
 

surplus1

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KingAirer said:
Im really asking this under true ignorance, But was is the purpose of buying a company like midway. Theyre not even flying the equipment that they will be for U. U isnt hurting for pilots as the have lots on furlough. Why not give the contract to a WO or to an already contracted company such as CCAir. is it because they would go for the j4j easily???

That's really a question you should ask ALPA, architect of J4J. You are probably correct though. Those regionals that did not have J4J crammed down their throats by the union, all rejected it. Since Midway is bankrupt, the Midway pilots have no choice.

If Midway gets running again, the Midway pilots will lose their jobs to the USAir pilots who will replace them. Of course Midway pilots are also "represented" by the ALPA.

Since being a regional pilot in ALPA is much like being a black man in the old South Africa, you should have no trouble understanding why that's OK.
 

chperplt

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If Midway gets running again, the Midway pilots will lose their jobs to the USAir pilots who will replace them. Of course Midway pilots are also "represented" by the ALPA.

I have to disagree on this one.. How many airplanes does Midway have, or will have under the agreement? If 50% of those airplanes will be flying with U pilots, then none of the currect Midway pilots should lose their jobs.

As much as everyone complains that all of the RJ flying should be flown by U or one of the U companies, that is completely impossible. In the situation U is in, there is no way they can secure enough financing for all these jets. They have to let outside companies secure the financing for their own jets and pay them on a contract basis.. How can they afford to do it any other way?
 

surplus1

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chperplt said:


I have to disagree on this one.. How many airplanes does Midway have, or will have under the agreement? If 50% of those airplanes will be flying with U pilots, then none of the currect Midway pilots should lose their jobs.

I'm sorry you disagree but that will not change my mind. Injustice remains injustice whether we agree or not. This is not about my opinion vs your opinion, just look at the facts. Have you read the agreement that the regional pilots are being coerced into accepting? If you haven't please do.

How many pilots does Midway have on furlough (from its previous bankruptcy and from the current one)? If Midway begins to operate again as the result of a contract with U, why shouldn't the Midway pilots be recalled to their jobs BEFORE U pilots take them? Why should U pilots have preference to jobs at Midway Airlines, while Midway pilots remain unemployed?

Please don't tell me that U pilots have some right to flying at Midway. They do not. The union is simply coercing some of its members to give preference to members that it prefers. I don't care if U pilots get jobs and hope that they do. They should get them AFTER all Midway pilots are recalled (that want to be), not before.

As much as everyone complains that all of the RJ flying should be flown by U or one of the U companies, that is completely impossible. In the situation U is in, there is no way they can secure enough financing for all these jets. They have to let outside companies secure the financing for their own jets and pay them on a contract basis.. How can they afford to do it any other way?

The financial problems at U are not the responsibility of the regional pilots affiliated with U, they did not cause them. If any pilots contributed to the problems it was U pilots, not the regional pilots. If U now has to subcontract its flying that's unfortunate, but it doesn't mean that regional pilots need to give up their seniority or work for less than U pilots, so that the U pilots can have priority to take their jobs. That's absurd. If none of the regional pilots give in to the coercion of ALPA, what is U going to do about it? Where will the U pilots get preference then?

If the regional pilots would just wake up an hold their own they could stop the discrimination by their union. If U can't "afford" to buy airplanes and if U pilots will not accept jobs without stealing seniority or without being paid more that regional pilots doing the same thing, then let them go out of business!

I would like to see the problems solved and everyone get work, but not at the expense of the regional pilots. What they are being asked to do is get up and give their seat to some dude that just got on the bus, because he's "better than them". That used to happen it the South and it kept happening until people had the guts to stand up for their rights. Regional pilots need to stand up and stop being wimps.

This is not the time for them to kiss @ss, it's time for them to kick @ss. The wholly owned subsidiaries at U have been kicked around for years by their "mainline brothers" and their union. It's time to do some kicking of their own. Unfortunately, they don't seem to have grasped that.
 

328dude

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Surplus, I value your opinions, but give it a rest man. Every other thread is you on the same topic. You apparently don't know the whole story about U and what has been going on over here. Opinions are one thing, but shear ignorance is another.

Sit down, relax and have a Twinkie

If you want to play MEC to somebody, then put yourself on a ballot and hope for the best.

Shishhhh
 

InHot

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Tango Uniform

Heard Midway pilots have told Bob to stick it.

Maybe there is some justice in the world after all.

:)
 

chperplt

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Surplus1

I'm not trying to change your mind.. You can't teach an old dog new tricks and frankly I couldn't give a hoot what you think.

You generally make some very good points in your posts, but enough is enough.. Right or wrong, this is where the industry is right now. Deal with it..
 

Tim47SIP

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Just a point!

"Im really asking this under true ignorance, But was is the purpose of buying a company like midway. "

I don't think U bought Midway (although I could be wrong and will probably find out pretty quick). I was under the impression that U secured a 3-5mil dollar loan to get midway back up and then U will start using them or their assets. I think that they are still a seperate company. :p
 

~~~^~~~

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surplus1 said:
Since being a regional pilot in ALPA is much like being a black man in the old South Africa, you should have no trouble understanding why that's OK.
So do I have someone else that would put an ALPA Apartied sticker on their bag?

ALPA Apartied - One Level of Discrimination
 

surplus1

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328dude said:
Surplus, I value your opinions, but give it a rest man. Every other thread is you on the same topic. You apparently don't know the whole story about U and what has been going on over here. Opinions are one thing, but shear ignorance is another.

One of the advantages of forums is that you can skip over whatever you don't want to read. If you're unhappy with what I say, do that. It may surprise you, but I know a lot more about the "whole story about U" than you might guess. It might even be more than you know, although you apparently work (educated guess) for one of the subsidiaries. The one that allows the "MEC" to ratify agreements without the pilot's vote; renigs on committments and a few other things better left unsaid.

If you want to kiss ALPA's behind or a few mainline @sses, be my guest. I don't intend to do either one. Anyone who gives injustice and discrimination a "rest" and does nothing becomes its willing victim. Is that your position?

Sit down, relax and have a Twinkie

Twinkies are for children. If you have any leftover I'll be glad to pass them on to my grandkids. Thanks.

If you want to play MEC to somebody, then put yourself on a ballot and hope for the best.

BTDT, got several T-shirts and boxes of KY courtesy of ALPA. Proud to say it was wishful thinking on their part. Sounds like you felt grateful when you got your KY and the shaft that came with it; I sent mine back (unopened and unused). Probably why I'm ignorant and you're smart.

Have a nice day. Wish you the best.
 

surplus1

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chperplt said:
Right or wrong, this is where the industry is right now. Deal with it..

If you think that where the "industry is right now", justifies discrimination, injustice and theft of seniority, then I really feel sorry for you and your kind.

Perhaps people like me will get shafted anyway, but I'll be kicking and screaming all the while. I'd rather go out fighting than to just bend over, grab my ankles and smile. Sorry, but I'm not willing to "deal" with being screwed.

Different strokes for different folks.
 

chperplt

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If you think that where the "industry is right now", justifies discrimination, injustice and theft of seniority, then I really feel sorry for you and your kind.

Don't feel sorry for me man.. I have a very good education, a decent job, and job security.

You need to take a step back and relax a little bit. Your one more 2000 word post from a heart attack.
 

surplus1

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chperplt said:


Don't feel sorry for me man.. I have a very good education, a decent job, and job security.

That's wonderful and I'm happy for you. Live long and prosper. BTW, I don't feel sorry for your job security or your education. I feel sorry for your attitude. That apparently escapes you.

You need to take a step back and relax a little bit. Your one more 2000 word post from a heart attack.

If we knew each other you would understand why I find that especially amusing. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to smile.
 

chperplt

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I feel sorry for your attitude. That apparently escapes you.



No... It didn't escape me.. I understand where you're coming from, and don't like it either. I guess I'm just trying to look at the other side of the coin and see some light.



If we knew each other you would understand why I find that especially amusing. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to smile.


I'm glad I could make you laugh..

I hope you do step back every now and then and relax! Like I said, I do enjoy reading your posts.
 

328dude

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Smokin, whats up man. Long time no hear from. I have come to the conclusion that Surplus like to appear that he is well informed of all airlines intricate workings. I never said that I liked what was going on. (Read a little harder Surplus, grandkids got your glasses?)

Even though the WO's have agreed to diffrent things, the concensus around the crew rooms with all three partys is that we still respect each other still consider each other unified and fighting for the same thing. ALG has put up a great fight and I commend them for that and support them 100%. They finally got a TA and I hope it's what they wanted.

Sending stuff back to ALPA? Right...... Would you send back a benefit check from ALPA when you needed it? .....didnt think so.
Total BS

Give it up, this time have a Ensure.
 

surplus1

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328dude said:
I have come to the conclusion that Surplus like to appear that he is well informed of all airlines intricate workings.

Only thing wrong with your conclusion is that its not an "appearance", its a fact. Especially in the union.

They finally got a TA and I hope it's what they wanted.

Miraculous that it came only hours after their leader quit. I too hope they got what they wanted, but I have a sneaking suspicion that what they got was more like what DW and MK wanted them to get.

Sending stuff back to ALPA? Right...... Would you send back a benefit check from ALPA when you needed it? .....didnt think so.

It's kind of funny how so many in ALPA seem to think they can just buy whomever they want and screw whomever they want if they throw a little money at it. They're wrong, everyone isn't for sale. The 3 months of benefits don't even come close to the years of money they've taken while failing to represent our interests. If they don't change that, we just might get it all back and then some.

Give it up, this time have a Ensure.

I use Boost; better flavor.

Good luck to ya. I hope the seniority your "brothers" at USAirways take won't be yours. That way you can continue to be blase while some junior dude suffers. Now that you have a flow-through to nowhere, you should be real happy to be a potential mainline dude.
 

surplus1

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Re: Surplus 1

Smoking Man said:
Do you think a Utopia would work? Or does the yen need the yang? The fire not need the water? Good need the EVIL? Sorry that you don't approve about us, and you could do it better, I guess with age comes wisdom.

No, I think Utopia is not achievable by man. However, I also think discrimination is preventable and doesn't have to be accepted.

I don't think I could "do it better". How I would do it is irrelevant. What bothers me is the attitude of accepting whatever is done to you and the appearance of being unwilling to fight it, even if you do not win.

In this thread, you criticize me for raising the same objections that you yourself raise in other threads in different sections of the forum. There you write that you are unhappy that you were deprived of your vote. Here you infer that I'm out of line for saying that. That strikes me as inconsistent. It's OK if you disagree with me and choose a different direction. Just pick a heading and hold it (is all I'm really asking) otherwise you're just circling and going nowhere.

You seem to be saying that you don't like what's happening and, you don't like how it was done and, you don't like that "something" was decided and the pilot group doesn't even know what it is (in your other posts). Nevertheless, you get upset with me when I urge you (or others) to do something about it.

Yes, wisdom does come with age though not automatically. We don't do things right because we are older. However, being older provides the opportunity to review our past mistakes, avoid repeating them ourselves and encourage others not to keep repeating them. That's wisdom. When you've acquired the age you too will understand that component.

"It is better to have tried and failed than never to have tried at all".

Help me to understand how the ALG guys could be picketing ALPA one week and 48 hours after their Chairman resigns they capitulate to ALPA. Help me to understand how you are "together" when they picketed alone (except for one ACA pilot that joined them). Where were their brothers? What am I missing?

You are correct about the value of Midway's slots. They are worth more than the 3.5 million that U is "lending" them. It is also true that whether they actually have those RJs is questionable. Bombardier seems to think they belong to them. What do you think will happen to the nearly 400 (minus those resigned)furloughed Midway pilots? Think they'll be recalled or will all the jobs go to U pilots?

Now that you folks have all "agreed", I note the coincidence of 500 new furlough's at U. Assuming all those pilots accept the regional jet jobs, where will the jets come from and when do you think you will see one on your property?

Which of the subcontractors do you think will agree to J4J? What happens if they all say no? Where will the money for all those new RJs come from then? Will they all go to MAA and the wholly owned? How long will it take to put 150 new RJs online so that the U pilots can all be recalled?

You see, I don't have all the answers. I hope you guys that agreed to all this have those answers and maybe you would share them with the rest of us?

Maybe the rest of us should just mind our own business? How should we react when ALPA comes up with the same J4J idea on the DAL, NWA, AWA or UAL properties? Will this precedent of forcing the loss of seniority be tried on us too? I guess I should just shut up and hope for the best. My union and my mainline buddys will take care of me, right?

I wish you the very best.
 

BigFlyr

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I think they're supposed to hammer-out a final agreement this week. From what I heard through Midway channels, the original proposal not only had U pilots in 50% of the seats but 50% of them would also be captains and all U Capts. and FOs would start at $50 per hour as opposed to Midway FO's who would start
at $20 per hour. Talk about adding insult to injury!
 
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