Mideast Airlines Taking Over

[Flyer1015]

So it's okay for United and NWA (Delta) to have a hub in Tokyo Narita flying to Singapore, Seoul, Manila, Hong Kong, Kuala Lampur, but it's not okay for Emirates to fly JFK to Milan.

 

[Andy]

So it's okay for United and NWA (Delta) to have a hub in Tokyo Narita flying to Singapore, Seoul, Manila, Hong Kong, Kuala Lampur, but it's not okay for Emirates to fly JFK to Milan.

If ANYONE had done their homework, they would have known that the Asian and European 5th Freedom Rights granted to US airlines were due to our involvement in WWII and subsequently paying the entire bill to rebuild those countries. As of today, only Finland has repaid loans from the Marshall Plan.

Those 5th Freedom Rights didn't come cheap. But I guess that stuff's lost on on the ipod and backpack crowd.

 

[General Lee]

So it's okay for United and NWA (Delta) to have a hub in Tokyo Narita flying to Singapore, Seoul, Manila, Hong Kong, Kuala Lampur, but it's not okay for Emirates to fly JFK to Milan.

DL (via NW) and UAL (via Pan Am) received the slots and rights via buying them outright, and they were awarded them by the Japanese Govt after WWII. The slots are limited, though. JFK also has limited slots at the busy periods, and limited gates. Emirates tried JFK to Hamburg, Germany and onto Dubai back in 2006 and failed. They will probably try MXP, but I don't see them having a hub in JFK, doubtful.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Flyby1206]

Not to break up the 5th Freedom lovefest, but how do the Open Skies agreements enter into the equation? It is my understanding you can fly from Country A, to Country B, to Country C as long as they are all part of the Open Skies. Is this correct?

 

[8sugarsugar]

DL (via NW) and UAL (via Pan Am) received the slots and rights via buying them outright, and they were awarded them by the Japanese Govt after WWII. The slots are limited, though. JFK also has limited slots at the busy periods, and limited gates. Emirates tried JFK to Hamburg, Germany and onto Dubai back in 2006 and failed. They will probably try MXP, but I don't see them having a hub in JFK, doubtful.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Emirates' JFK-Hamburg-DXB was not a 5th freedom flight and it failed miserably for a couple reasons

they could only pick up passengers in DXB and drop them off in Hamburg or JFK

In reverse, they could only pick up passengers in JFK and Hamburg and drop them off in DXB.

The plane will be half full on at least one sector.

Plus, passengers were not happy at all, especially those that bought duty free liquor in JFK, had to go back through security in Hamburg and surrender it.

 

[8sugarsugar]

Edit: Just for yucks, I'll write my Congresscritters along with the Senate and House Transportation Committee members and let them know I'm in favor of giving Emirates unrestricted 5th Freedom access to all US cities. After all, they were gracious enough to allow me to defend their country and region when I was in the military while they guarded the rear lines.

Emirates has only bought over 200 Boeing 777s, that is a bit of political clout. Plus, US cities are begging Emirates to hook them up to the Emirates SkyCargo Network.

 

[8sugarsugar]

deleted

 

[General Lee]

Emirates has only bought over 200 Boeing 777s, that is a bit of political clout. Plus, US cities are begging Emirates to hook them up to the Emirates SkyCargo Network.

They also bought plenty of A330s and A380s, and Europe has pretty much told them they do NOT get unlimited access. France and Germany limit them to a certain number of cities, no more. Etihad had to buy into Air Berlin to try to gain headway, but Air Berlin has to fly passengers to Abu Dhabi, to connect to Etihad, to the cities Etihad can't go to due to this restricitions. The problem is Emirates, Etihad, and Qatari have nothing to offer the other Governments, other than stealing marketshare away from their national airlines, that produce jobs in their countries. When Emirates wants to fly 4 A380s per day from one city to Dubai, those pax aren't all going to Dubai, and that hurts the National airline. Hence restrictions. Canada is the best example---3 flights a week, period. It will only take a matter of time when the US national airlines will go to their lobbyists, who will go to the Congressmen and say "put up some roadblocks". It's called Votes, and a few legacies in the US have a bunch more pull with "local" congressmen than Emirates has with Boeing. The Senator from West Virginia couldn't give a ratt's butt about Emirates, but he could throw in some legislation that could limit EXCESS competition.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Varmint]

Eliminate Asian cities and Australia/New Zealand. The number gets much smaller.

20 city pairs? I can do that with 7 cities.

In how many US cities does Emirates currently have 5th Freedom rights? The same number of US ports that Dubai Ports World bought in 2006?

No worries; I'm sure that DOT/FAA will simply rubber stamp Emirates' requests and there will be zero public opposition. :laugh:
I must say, it's amusigly easy to spot newhires at various airlines. Watch out for those Dubai rent scams.

Edit: Just for yucks, I'll write my Congresscritters along with the Senate and House Transportation Committee members and let them know I'm in favor of giving Emirates unrestricted 5th Freedom access to all US cities. After all, they were gracious enough to allow me to defend their country and region when I was in the military while they guarded the rear lines.

Let's just eliminate everything so you seem right.

Cities....not city pairs.

When your debating resorts to personal digs you are grabbing for straws. Enough said on this from me.

Put your arm straight up, bend it back, and give yourself a pat on the back for serving in the military. I did also.....fortunately without the chip on my shoulder towards other areas of the world.

 

[8sugarsugar]

They also bought plenty of A330s and A380s, and Europe has pretty much told them they do NOT get unlimited access. France and Germany limit them to a certain number of cities, no more. Etihad had to buy into Air Berlin to try to gain headway, but Air Berlin has to fly passengers to Abu Dhabi, to connect to Etihad, to the cities Etihad can't go to due to this restricitions. The problem is Emirates, Etihad, and Qatari have nothing to offer the other Governments, other than stealing marketshare away from their national airlines, that produce jobs in their countries. When Emirates wants to fly 4 A380s per day from one city to Dubai, those pax aren't all going to Dubai, and that hurts the National airline. Hence restrictions. Canada is the best example---3 flights a week, period. It will only take a matter of time when the US national airlines will go to their lobbyists, who will go to the Congressmen and say "put up some roadblocks". It's called Votes, and a few legacies in the US have a bunch more pull with "local" congressmen than Emirates has with Boeing. The Senator from West Virginia couldn't give a ratt's butt about Emirates, but he could throw in some legislation that could limit EXCESS competition.


Bye Bye---General Lee
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quite the contrary, Emirates is expanding rapidly in Europe. Just added Lyon, New Castle, Warsaw, Barcelona, and Dublin.

Emirates has a lot to offer Governments. For example, trade between Texas and the UAE is in the $billions and Emirates is the bridge.

You are right about passengers not going to Dubai. About 85% of all EK passengers connect to other destinations.

Emirates has only competed directly with the Lufthansa, Air France, British airways types moving passengers between Europe, asia, africa and Aussie. Until now, the US Legacies are taking note.

I believe most legacies would open their doors to the stream of passengers being funneled into their domestic network from Emirates.


http://skift.com/2013/01/08/emirates-airlines-plans-for-taking-over-the-globe-part-one/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...e-a380-superjumbos-for-network-expansion.html