MidAtlantic Captain Positions At 01/99 DOH

[LearLove]

The website is up for WO guys to put their pref/bid at MDA. It looks like 3 classes of 12 each or 36 FO's for July. I would assume the same rate after that per month. I hope that this opens some room at ALG/PDT so that I can get back to the left seat on the Dash. I'm not sure though as we have attrition over to MDA we also have the magic dissapearing Dash fleet so we'll have to see.

Looking at the CEL I'm just about in the center of the 1074 ALG, PDT and PSA guys listed. Therefore I'm looking at 500 calls before they get to me. There are 115 or so PSA, 190 ALG and 200ish PDT senior to me. I don't think many of the PSA guys will be takers as the 115 PSA guys are all capts at PSA. I suspect that half of the ALG and Half of the PDT guys senior to me will take a MDA position. With this assumption I can say that their are about 100 alg and 100 PDT guys wanting MDA positions ahead of me. Toss in 30 PSA for good measure and we have 230 guys on the CEL that go to MDA before me. At 36 guys per month (230/36=6.6) thats 6-7 months to get to me. If all 500 or so take it it will be 500/36=13.6 or about 14 months.

As of now I bid for Capt MDA as getting back to the left seat on the dash is the most important thing for me. Down the road in a few months if it looks like we wont be able to reupgrade at PDT (all dash 8 at PDT by then) then I may as well head over to MDA.

 

[LearLove]

WOW I just logged on to the site and over night they added more classes plus 12 Capt positions. Thats 12 WO guys getting the shot at Capt positions at MDA if I'm looking at this correctly.

the chart didn't work out so:

between 7/5 and 8/6 there will be 6 classes. 60 FO's and 12 capts.

 

[Airpiraterob]

furloughed.

I'm absolutely happy for you man. Good luck with the future. I'm sure it will smile on you. It's good to hear someone thinking about the whole picture instead of the next and bigger plane. Theres several people iv'e met in the last year of my new job (thanks for all your help...i mean it.) and really there is a point to where the chase has to stop in favor of a stable life at a stable place. Youve found that. I raise my drink to you. It's something all of us are trying to find, not many realize it could be right in front of them.

good luck man.
-rob

 

[LittleDeuce]

Mda

It will be a LONG time to upgrade for WO pilots at MDA, they are all junior to a 1879 mainline pilots. Also we are not type rating pilots with seniority numbers higher than 4500 due to the "Jet Blue" factor.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Furloughed,


I know what you mean. 3 years ago I would have jumped at one of the J4J offers, but after being out of the airline biz for a while I am seeing the regionals for what they are.

Flying Corporate I am actually (gasp!!) seeing my kid grow up!! And I have been home for the past 3 Christmas, and Thanksgiving holidays.....something that I had missed every year for the previous 7 years. And to top it off the pay is much better than any of the regionals. So like you, instead of jumping at one of the so called "good deals" I find myself wondering how they are actually getting anyone to fly those things for the wages offered! Although it appears that there are darn few takers for the job from anybody that has anykind of experience. Mostly just the older guys that were furloughed later down the line with 10 or 12 years in at U and have not found anything better yet.

Yet everyday I see the kids coming through that think 60 grand is a fortune to fly left seat in an RJ and be gone away from your home and family for 200 + days a year. And they are willing to pay 100k to learn how to do a job that has a starting wage of 18 k.

Strange how it came to this, considering that your average motivated high school student makes better money than that working part time after school.

So like you, barring any unforseen events I will not be accepting any of their generous offers, I prefer working somewhere that actually appreciates the experience I have and is not just looking for a warm body.

Who do you fly for? It sounds great? The way you describe your job is opposite of the impression I get from talking to some of my friends who went to a corporate out fit during our strike.

Being home is a wonderful thing That is why I enjoy the training dept. so much.

 

[LearLove]

It will be a LONG time to upgrade for WO pilots at MDA, they are all junior to a 1879 mainline pilots. Also we are not type rating pilots with seniority numbers higher than 4500 due to the "Jet Blue" factor.

at

Thats what I thought but then why are there positions listed for MDA Capt? Can the mainline guys still bid them? I'm under the impression they went up and down the 1879 for both capt and PIC. Guess time will tell.

 

[Steve 737]

Last I heard Mid-Atlantic Captain slots were being offered to guys about 1/2 way down the APL list. And don't forget that with each new class being filled, they start at the top of the APL and work down looking for anyone who may have changed thier preference. There are many of us who are waiting until we know we can hold a block to go to MAA. P.S. I believe they have been thru the entire APL for F/O's.

 

[LearLove]

Not really on the MDA suject but here is updates info on the ALG/PDT front:​

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Subject: Merger Update​

The Corporate merger of Allegheny and Piedmont will be effective on July 1, 2004. Although the
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Corporate merger will be effective on this date, the operational merger will require several months to
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complete.
​

Effective July 1, 2004 all the flights previously sold and displayed under Allegheny Flight numbers will
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now be sold and displayed as Piedmont flights. However, internally crewmembers, maintenance,
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dispatch and other operational departments will continue to operate as two separate airlines under the
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Merger Plan until total operational integration has occurred.
​

On July 1, 2004 all Allegheny employees will become Piedmont employees. New US Airways Express
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identification cards and the Piedmont name on the employee’s paycheck will change for all the former
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Allegheny employees after June 30th.
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The current US Airways Express identification card showing Allegheny Airlines Inc. will be replaced by
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a new card showing Piedmont Airlines Inc. as the employer. Distribution of the new cards will occur
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late in June and early July. Former Allegheny employees will need to surrender their old Allegheny card
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in exchange for their new Piedmont identification cards. Since our identification cards double as our
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travel card, both the old Allegheny card and the new Piedmont card will be active in the travel system
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allowing employees to use either card until distribution is complete. Once complete, the old Allegheny
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cards will become invalid and may no longer be used for any purpose.
​

Effective on the first pay following July 1​

st, all former Allegheny employees will receive their paychecks
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from Piedmont. Initially, pay cycles will remain the same. The only difference will be the appearance of
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the Piedmont name on the check.
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Non-contract Allegheny employees will transfer to Piedmont’s policies, procedures, and benefit plans
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on July 1, 2004. A separate mailer to non-contract employees will provide specific information on the
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benefit plans and new policies.
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Contract employees (those represented by ALPA, AFA, or IBT) will have no other changes except
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what has been negotiated or decided by the National Mediation Board.
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2
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6/10/2004
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Airline Pilot Association (ALPA) represents both Allegheny and Piedmont. Allegheny Pilots have
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approved a pre-merger agreement. ALPA National has determined a Policy Initiation Date (PID) for
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the integration of the pilots of the two carriers into one seniority list, which must be completed before the
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full integration of the two groups can occur.
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Association of Flight Attendants (AFA) represents both Allegheny and Piedmont Flight Attendants.
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Both the Pre-Merger Agreement and the Fence Agreement have been completed between AFA and
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the Company. Allegheny Flight Attendants will transfer to Piedmont as specified in their fence
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agreement.
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International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT) represents Allegheny Customer Service Agents,
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Mechanics, Dispatchers and Stock Clerks. The IBT has filed for single carrier status for the customer
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service employees of Allegheny and Piedmont. Piedmont customer service employees are currently not
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represented by a union. The Company responded to this petition for representation by agreeing that a
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single carrier would exist after the merger and furthermore stated that this status should apply as well to
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the mechanics, dispatchers and stores employees that are covered by the International Association of
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Machinists (IAM) at Piedmont. If the NMB agrees with the Company, the NMB will proceed to
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determine a single representative for each of these groups, presumably through elections for
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representation. Until the NMB reaches a decision, these groups will continue to follow their respective
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collective bargaining agreements.
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Further updates will be provided as events unfold.
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[FurloughedAgain]

August Classes For Wholly-Owneds

Rumor has it that they are now offering 30 Captain and 66 F/O positions at MidAtlantic (Aug class) for the wholly-owned pilots to bid.

I couldn't believe it got to MY class of furloughees that quickly -- i'm AMAZED that they have exhausted the entire list of furloughees for Captain classes and are now calling up wholly-owned pilots to the left seat.

I wish you all well with your decisions.

 

[stb]

MDA needs F/O's....

F/O's out of training are getting lines of flying. MDA is using Capts for F/O flying.

W/O pilots beware of adjustment bids in the future at MDA.

There are alot of senior pilots in the J4J about to be released from their contacts at CHQ, Mesa and PSA. (Aug, Sept, Oct.) They will be slotted in at USAirs date of hire. They will be ahead of W/O pilots.

W/O pilots that do come to MDA will get voting rights at U mainline. Which brings up the question of are MDA W/O pilots considered U mainline pilots for recall.
I know, U is a sinking ship and I'm getting off when I can but it is something to think about.
Pilots at MDA think we will be sold. Denial, wishful thinking, did I say denial?

But W/O pilots should ask themselves, What future does the Dash 8 have in USAirs future, if USAir has a future.
Could USAir sell the Dash 8's to another airline and who could it be?

One plus, when jumpseating, a MDA pilot is considered mainline.
Yes its a small plus but have to stay positive.


Just giving out some info on the MDA Capt dangling carrot.

Grasshopper choose wisely.

 

[WhiteCloud]

I think its time that I stop rushing around.

Congratulations on your decision. Best wishes that your new found stability is the key to happiness and success.

 

[USAirways1149]

Seniority

So lets say that Furloughed (or one of the other 1800 refugees) declines to go to MidAtlantic at this time.

They take a bypass and are put down as a "no preference".

Now fast-forward about six months or a year. US Airways has turned the corner and things are looking pretty good over there. (It could happen!)

MidAtlantic advertises a class to begin in a few weeks and Furloughed sends in a new preference form indicating his desire to now go to MidAtlantic Captain.

They accept his form and he is scheduled to attend the next class.

Will he then fall into the seniority list in whatever position his
01/99 DOH would hold?

Or would he go to the bottom of the list and be junior to the wholly-owned guys?

According to USAir, the furloughed guys can bypass MidAtlantic indefinately and need only send in a form when they're ready to go to class.

If that is the case, then "FurloughedAgain" or any of the other 1800 guys dont have anything to lose by bypassing MidAtlantic. It seems to me that they can just keep MAA in their back-pocket as a nice plan-B in case something happens to their current jobs or US Airways looks better. In the meantime their seniority would theoretically get better and better and if/when they DO decide to come back, they would be senior lineholders rather than junior reserves.

Or am I understanding it wrong?

 

[LittleDeuce]

Mda

A furloughed US Airways pilot (APL Pilot) will always be able to bypass MDA and always retain his or her seniority.

The most senior Wholy Owned pilot on the CEL, will be 1 number junior to the most junior mainline pilot on the APL.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

A furloughed US Airways pilot (APL Pilot) will always be able to bypass MDA and always retain his or her seniority.

The most senior Wholy Owned pilot on the CEL, will be 1 number junior to the most junior mainline pilot on the APL.

Duece,

If a furloughee passes on MDA how are future offers handled? Do they go back to the APL for each and every Captain slot that opens up? Even if they have been hiring off the street?

And it was asked before though I didn't see an answer. How will recall be handled should U somehow pull this thing out of the fire and begin to do well, concerning the W/O pilots who are on the property and technically are USAir mainline pilots? Would they somehow rate over furloughees who passed on MDA or not?

I have my own feelings about the pay scale at MDA, and the pay cut that I would incur should I elect to go to MDA, but that is an issue with the MEC and not the crews flying the birds, however this situation is becoming very haphazard and unclear. The lack of information coming from ALPA on these issues is making an educated decision near impossible. It has gotten so I can't even tell if choosing one way or the other is screwing myself or not!!

On one hand I am aprehensive of leaving a good corporate job to go to a regional feeder for a failing carrier, on the other hand, it is technically a recall to my airline. Given the track record of the MEC over the last two years (Retirement, etc....) I do not trust them to look after my best interests, even if I am on the active dues paying list. On that note though, if USAir does make it, they would then be the better choice over a corporate job in the long haul. My current position is stable and looks to be there for a long time to come but when dealing with corporate you do have to look at the averages. And they say that in the corp. world you are going to be looking for a new job about every seven years.

Hmmmm I seem to have been thinking out loud, so to speak!

Bottom line, from one furloughed puke to another, Since you are on the inside at MDA, what are your thoughts on the subject? I know that the phone is going to be ringing in the next few weeks and I a trying to assess the options.

Thanks,

Confused with a headache.

 

[WSurf]

Take your time, you are only going to gain seniority over at MDA, and have nothing lose it. Just sit back over the next year and look how all this pans out with MDA. Put No Prefence in your bid and then they wont call you. If you are making more money now, why the hell go. You can put US Airways Only, and they will only call you when U Mainline hires again (if ever). But if all looks good, then put in for MDA Cap. You have nothing to lose. Believe me, once Jet Blue gets there 100 EMB-190's they will go through the MDA list of Capts. fast to get qualified EMB drivers. MDA will be the training ground for J.B.
If I had a family to support, then I would stay at the job that pays well and wait till you get called back to mainline... You regain your longevity there.... But if single, then its a toss up... Good Luck which ever route you take.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Folks are leaving

One of my co-workers just accepted his recall to MidAtlantic.

I have to say i'm terribly jealous. The prospect of going over there and flying a fantastic machine from the left seat (while upgrade will likely take the better part of a decade at Comair) is definately a siren song.

I still feel as though holding-off for the time being is a better decision, but it is breaking my heart to make it -- especially when I see friends and co-workers jumping at the opportunity all around me.

I sure hope i'm doing the right thing.

 

[LittleDeuce]

Mda

Furloughed;

Have you looked at the TP plan and Lakefeilds presentation at PIT last week?

Call me crazy but I am VERY optimistic for the future. We have an 85% load factor here. Plans for 40 more mainline aircraft and 7 more international destinations. Granted, this is all baised on the new cost structure. Airways is finally doing what it should have done a long time ago.

Closing PIT training. Re-aligning some departments in Flt Ops.

And the best part, moving the ERJ-170 sim to CLT!

The 170 is a fantastic airplane. Yes, there have been some bugs, but most of them have been worked out with the new software load.

Good luck with your decision. The good news is, you will NEVER loose your seniorityso you can afford to wait and see how the "plan" plays out.

 

[F70pilot]

Furloughed;

And the best part, moving the ERJ-170 sim to CLT!

Stick it in your ear Sam.

 

[4lowed]

Hey F70,


Is it Sam, or is it a single guy who keeps having trees fall down behind his shack? Pain is the weakness leaving my body.

4lowed

PS Nevermind, I only know one person who flew all those versions of those dangerous turboprops from DH out of south Jersey.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Sam

Thanks Sam,

I'm pleased that things are going well for you. Wish I had the guts to give it a shot, but I guess i'm a bit of a wimp.

By the way, did we share a 737-300 initial a few years back? AQP guy?

 

[LittleDeuce]

Mda

Yes, we did.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

4lowed,

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

[LearLove]

The bids for the July FO positions closed on 6/20 (one class) and 6/26 (3 classes).

A majority of the positions are ALG pilots. The first class (the bid that closed on 6/20) is one Senior ALG capt (10+ years) and several mid level capts (1996-1997 DOH). I'm not sure about the PDT guys.

The next three classes of 12 each (bids that closed on 6/24) are again a majority ALG. Their sen is junior Capts and senior FO's. The FO's that got a class date are all downgraded capts. The bid did not reach FO's at ALG who never upgraded (note: unless they were a "super senior FO" that never took an upgrade).

The most junior guy in the last July class is around 550 on the combined WO list and has an ALG DOH of 9/99.

The word on the street is the bids for the Aug classes will actually go more senior than 550 on the combined WO list as there may be a mad rush to MDA as Allegheny management has decided to downgrade and park planes rather than upgrade and hire. This is in ADDITION to the regularly sked planes that are being parked. So basically all the junior Capts that are getting the shaft back to FO are saying that if thier going to be an FO they may as well be at MDA.

There were no MDA capt slots in the July classes but there are for AUG. It remains to be seen if any WO guys will get a Capt slot out of the AUG dates. from what was said above I would think they will be APL guys.

Guess we will see.

 

[Heavy Set]

Wow, what a shock to go from an ageing Dash 8 into the latest-generation EMB-170. I happy for the ALG guys - and I know the junior ALG pilots will appreciate it too with the faster upgrades - right?

Question - who get seniority when bidding a MidAtlantic seat, PSA or Piedmont/ALG given that both are wholly-owned? How is that determined who goes first? Lastly, have any mainline furloughees who selected j4j at PSA subsequently transferred over to Midatlantic after training on the CRJ-200/700?

The Emb-170 looks like a sweet ride...

 

[BTDII]

Wow, what a shock to go from an ageing Dash 8 into the latest-generation EMB-170. I happy for the ALG guys - and I know the junior ALG pilots will appreciate it too with the faster upgrades - right?

Question - who get seniority when bidding a MidAtlantic seat, PSA or Piedmont/ALG given that both are wholly-owned? How is that determined who goes first? Lastly, have any mainline furloughees who selected j4j at PSA subsequently transferred over to Midatlantic after training on the CRJ-200/700?

The Emb-170 looks like a sweet ride...

Its about time some of the ALG and PDT guys and gals share in all this RJ madness. Congradulations!!

In regards to the seniority issue and who will get what. ALG, PDT, and PSA are all combined on one seniority list called the CEL or the Combined Eligibilty List. This list was created for the flow to MidAtlantic and staple to Mainline only and has no other use except for that.

Since most of the PSA people are more junior to the PDT and ALG pilots most of the class positions not accepted by the furloughed Mainline pilots (APL/Affected Pilot List) will go to the ALG and PDT pilots for awhile.

Once at MidAtlantic, seniority is then in this order - APL Pilots in order of their position on the APL, CEL Pilots in order of thier position on the CEL then New Hire (Off the Street Pilots). If Mainline recalls then the Pilots from MidAtlantic can then move to Mainline. In that case the pilots on the CEL will be stapled to the Mainline List if the CEL pilot or pilots accepts the position at Mainline.

In a perfect world if Airways can really become a strong airline, this process puts us closer to One List. Though as always, things can change in the blink of an eye. The one catch with all of this is that if a CEL pilot is called for a position at MidAtlantic and turns it down, that Pilot is taken off the CEL and will not be able to flow to MidAtlantic or Mainline.

With regards to those APL (J4J) Pilots already at PSA, they can go to MidAtlantic after they have served 1 year at PSA as long as there is an opening at MidAtlantic. But PSA can also keep the APL Pilot for, "I think", its either 90 days or 6 months after their year is up. I can't remember which one it is. I don't have the paper work in front of me. Sorry.

 

[LearLove]

"and I know the junior ALG pilots will appreciate it too with the faster upgrades - right?"

I say again:

"The word on the street is the bids for the Aug classes will actually go more senior than 550 on the combined WO list as there may be a mad rush to MDA as Allegheny management has decided to downgrade and park planes rather than upgrade and hire. This is in ADDITION to the regularly sked planes that are being parked. So basically all the junior Capts that are getting the shaft back to FO are saying that if thier going to be an FO they may as well be at MDA."

The ALG bid for AUG shows a net REDUCTION (that means no upgrades) of Capts. Thus the majority of the July MDA positions were taken by Junior Capts and us downgraded guys. The senior Capts won't because of the pay cut and the fact that many are close to retirement so they would loose thier "social security bridge". Almost non of the ALG guys set to hit age 60 by 2008 will not take the MDA position. For the Semi-senior guys who have like 10 or so years left they will go or wait for a PIC position as they can retire from ALG and get most of the pension then finish in the left seat at MDA. If you ask why 2008 thats because thats when U says they will be out of the Dash bizz. (so they say) So now you can get an idea of who stays, who goes now and who goes later.

As for myself (downgraded guy) its becoming pretty clear. There will be no reupgrade at ALG and who knows what will go down when the PDT/ALG pilot groups are finaly put together. When/if the groups come together by DOH I would be able to hold a Capt position but like I said who knows and how far down the road is that going to be. Also it may be a good idea to take an MDA slot while we can because if ALG/PDT (or whatever combo) is sold off then there is (this may be debateable) no more oppertunity to go to MDA.

ALG will be at 18 aircraft by DEC 2004. Thats like 180 pilots, I could sneak in as a very junior FO in that case. Given that we (ALG) may be tied to our aircraft when we become PDT, in order for me to be a dash capt again I would have to be like 90 or so seniority of the ALG guys. As of now number 90 on our list has like 18-20 years here. So 18 years to hold JR capt in an ALG dash, my pissy little 5 and change will hold squat by then. Plus on top of this PDT is slated to start loosing aircraft in late 2005 until 2008. See where this is going. They want us gone.

I will never see my pension here. Although it wasn't a "mainline like $$$" the 1% time years of service (36 in my case) times FAE would be very nice when paired with my projected 401K in 2034 (my age 60) plus the social security bridge. O well, I've always said I'd rather have a good 401K and profit sharing instead of a pension because they can't take that away. Talk about eating my words.

Speaking of 401K's, MDA guys, hows the 401K there? I took a look at the matching and wasn't too impressed. How are the funds? Glad I have time (and market interest) on my side.

Here's something else, its quite obvious that they want to get thru the WO (CEL list) ASAP so they can hire from the street and start guys at 20 or so per hour instead of bringing WO guys on with DOH for pay. This is why we only get one shot at accepting an MDA position. Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy to have the oppertunity considering the alternative.

BTW the dash happens to be a fine aircraft. Our fleet is less than 8 years old. I would have no problem flying it for the next 31 years of my career (if I'm that luckey).

O well, guess time will tell, hope this helps.

 

[USAirways1149]

longevity for CEL pilots?

Sounds like someone dropped the ball -- badly -- and unknowingly created a "b-scale" at MidAtlantic. For the first time in the history of ALPO it appears the b-scale favors the JUNIOR pilots where, in the case of MidAtlantic, they were permitted to bring their longevity and are, therefore, being paid more than their more senior (furloughed) counterparts.

Hopefully there will be negotiations to rectify this situation promptly. Since it is obviously unfair to give the CEL guys pay-cuts to start them over at year-one, perhaps the company will do the right thing and give the furloughed guys their longevity. There will still, more than likely, be CEL pilots making more, but at least it will level the playing field.

Or maybe management likes to create division in the ranks.

 

[BTDII]

Sounds like someone dropped the ball -- badly -- and unknowingly created a "b-scale" at MidAtlantic. For the first time in the history of ALPO it appears the b-scale favors the JUNIOR pilots where, in the case of MidAtlantic, they were permitted to bring their longevity and are, therefore, being paid more than their more senior (furloughed) counterparts.

Hopefully there will be negotiations to rectify this situation promptly. Since it is obviously unfair to give the CEL guys pay-cuts to start them over at year-one, perhaps the company will do the right thing and give the furloughed guys their longevity. There will still, more than likely, be CEL pilots making more, but at least it will level the playing field.

Or maybe management likes to create division in the ranks.

You know, its funny that I've been hearing this kind of statement for awhile now. It was pretty much O.K. for the APL pilots to come to PSA at the top of FO payscale making that "newhire" APL the highest paid FO in the company. It was also O.K. to make that "newhire" APL pilot a Capt. out of Seniority, but when something good actually happens in favor of an ALG, PDT, or PSA pilot, you people start looking for a way to change it.

Carefull there 1149, your starting to sound like those that you've cursed for years.

 

[King2345]

Can someone post the CEL list. I use to work for Piedmont and was just wondering were I would fall on the list. Does any know how long it would take for someone hired in 6/2000 at Piedmont to flow up to mid-atlantic? Also, what are the mid-atlantic pay scales? Thanks

 

[j-3]

I think your hire date was 6/05/00. Numbers range from 611-617.

CEL Total = 980 pilots (update 6-15-04)