Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

MidAtlantic Captain Positions At 01/99 DOH

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
Bdtii

BDTII,

I completely disagree.

As you know (or perhaps you dont) I have been a strong supporter of a bidirectional flowthrough and unrestricted 50 seat and less RJs for the wholly-owneds for years. Long before I flew for US Airways, I flew for Express. I'm an Express pilot deep down and I always will be.

I'm glad that you were able to negotiate a superior agreement than the furloughed pilots were able to. But rather than allow a two-tier system to continue to exist, I believe there is an excellent opportunity to bring your (superior) agreement over and offer it to your MidAtlantic coworkers.

I would assume that the MAA negotiating committee is aware of the inequity and is committed to solving the problem -- by giving the furloughees their longevity back. NOT by taking it away from the wholly-owned pilots who are accepting the risk and coming to MidAtlantic.

The first step to a single seniority list is to bring equality to MidAtlantic.

And for what its worth, I didnt agree with J4J's "super seniority" either, which is why I did not participate.

Best wishes. If the airline survives another 6 months, I too may make the leap to MidAtlantic. Save me a seat.;)
 
1149,

If an APL guy goes to MDA as an FO they go at the highest pay, 8 year FO (high 30's). If they get a Capt slot then they start at year 1 Capt pay (50 something).

We WO guys getting pay based on years is in no way hurting any APL pilot. At the very worst a WO pilot with more than 8 years is paid the same as an APL MDA FO. In every other case the APL guy makes more. Plus the way its going it wont be long before all the APL guys at MDA are Capts or are getting Capt pay so please leave us WO guys alone.

For once something semi-good happens for us, I/we just want to be left alone. Remember all WO guys will always be junior to any mainline guys. Isn't that good enough?

BTW - If you still would like pay at years of service for APL guys then fine, but in return I want MDA to be staffed by the APL and WO guys by DOH. I don't think you'd like that would you?
 
No.

No Learlove,

It is a b-scale and its NOT ok. It's not ok at Jets4jobs. It's not ok at MidAtlantic. It wasn't ok at American. It wasn't ok at US Airways.

As I said i'm not advocating taking anything away from you guys -- but rather just giving the same benefit to the furloughees.

It would not impact you, your pay, your seniority, or your flowthrough one bit. In fact when CEL pilots are brought on as Captains (Which may happen later this summer) they will still make more than their more senior counterparts.

But there would be equality. Everyone would be compensated based on the same formula.

Yeah, something good happened to you. I dont want to take that away from you. I have no idea why it would bother you guys if the APL guys get the same benefit. After all, there are APL guys at MidAtlantic with DOH from the late 80's, early 90's. Wouldn't it be nice for THOSE guys to get longevity too?

If this single-seniority list is ever going to work, somebody is going to have to bite the bullet and start acting like a trade-unionist.
 
I have a July 12 class at MDA. I have also heard that Airways wants to do away with the longevity pay for the WO. Many of us could not afford to stay at first year fo pay. All I have to say is the is you try to get longevity for the APL, which I have no problem with, please don't let them take it from us!!
 
Mda

Dashcaptain said:
I have a July 12 class at MDA. I have also heard that Airways wants to do away with the longevity pay for the WO. Many of us could not afford to stay at first year fo pay. All I have to say is the is you try to get longevity for the APL, which I have no problem with, please don't let them take it from us!!
Click to expand...
Dashcaptain;

There are MANY APL pilots that cannot aford to lose as much as 13-14 years seniority but started at 1st year pay at Mid Atlantic. $58.44 for Captains and $35 something for F/O's.

Like USAirways 1149, I am also a former Wholy Owned pilot who as long advocated a flow through.

Most would agree this whole mess was not handled in the best fashion but were are were we are.

My phone is ringing off the hook with my former PDT friends that are fully expecting to come to MDA as Captains for $90 and change an hour.

First, I would like to verify that information on the WO pay rates. Could you help?

Second, I don't think any reasonable person would dissagree that it would be a travesty for a Junior WO pilot to come in $32.00 an hour more than an APL pilot.

The APLA Membership Services Chairman and a negotiating committe member are both MDA pilots. I know they are aware of the situation.

Now, right or wrong, the APL pilots will not stand for that.

Lets all hope we can work out a solution to this delema.

MDA is not perfect but it is a good operation with loads of potential if Airways is successfull.

I would like to see EVERY WO pilot here ASAP and I look forward to working with and training them.

Good luck to us all. This could get very interesting!
.
 
The captain pay at MDA starts at $58 and maxes out at around $90.62 at year 18. The FO pay tops out at year 8 and is currently around $36.34. I have heard that there is also an increase Jan 1.

And yes, this will be very interesting to see what happens.
 
the turtle said:
less than Mesa wages....amazing.
Click to expand...
Turtle,

You may want to do some research. The MidAtlantic rates are still higher than Mesa. Not to mention the work rules that go along with it.

1149,

Sorry that I may have misunderstood what you were advocating. Yes it would be nice for you APL guys to get paid as the WO do at MAA, but hopefully in that process of getting that you won't cause the pay for the WO guys to come down.

As I understand it, once at MAA, everyone will have voting rights on anything that goes on at Mainline. So it will be nice to see if the more Junior APL and WO can work together to bring some peace to this place.
 
Should make for a fun cockpit at MDA. I heard PSA has been a real joy since the J4J guys came over..... Man I can't wait to sling a gear at MDA and listen to my Capt. telling me how to operate a Jet. Fun, Fun, where do I sign up!!!! LOL, oh.... usairways-express.com!!! I am so there....
 
Captains

aww thats nothing new.

Ask any of the 99' hires at US Airways.

It's not a MidAtlantic thing. It's a Captain thing.

It is the same nomatter where you go. If the Captain with whome you are flying is confident in himself, comfortable with the airplane and with the operation (and of course as long as you dont suck), then you'll have a good trip.

If the Captain with whome you are flying is insecure, scared, nervous, and otherwise lacks confidence (or, if you do suck) then you'll likely be the recipient of some of that high-quality jet flight instruction.

If you experience the latter just write his name on the bathroom wall with the others and move on. :cool:

PS - If you find yourself reaching for that speedbrake handle more than once or twice a trip you probably need that flight instruction!
 
speedbrakes

PS - If you find yourself reaching for that speedbrake handle more than once or twice a trip you probably need that flight instruction!
Click to expand...
That brings back some memories.

In the DC9 we had a Capt named Jim Ladd (who is now, thankfully, retired). Well "Jim Ladd sucks" was written on the back of all of the yoke-clips. He sure did. And he didn't care much for us new guys either!

Anyhow, was flying with ol' Jim one day and I reached for the speedbrakes and he grabs my hand.

"Did you screw up Son?"

"No, Jim"

"Did the controller screw up Son?"

"No, Jim"

"Then you dont need to be touching that dang thing!"

He later explained to me in excrutiating detail how proper management of airspeed (energy) would yield the same results while providing smoother, quieter, ride for the customers.

But, even today I cringe whenever people (over)use the flight spoilers. :eek:

(He did later admit that if you mess up, or the controller messes up, sometimes it is appropriate to use em'.)
 
Speedbrakes and such

Ahh yes, you know it was a good flight when you go to idle on the throttles at FL 350 and manage it so you don't have to bring power back in until the gear comes out!!! Rare, very rare, but every now and then everything fell into place, the perfect STAR, good controller, correct active runway.

Of course, when it does work out you have to act like you do it all the time!!!!!!!!
 
Well, if you want a level playing field for the furloughs. Lets do this, I have no problem, and I do believe they should get longevity for pay. But on that same note, I believe that since MDA (soon to be WO:SSO does Paychecks, PDT Employ #'s and Health care provider) shouldn't all people from APL and CEL be combined into one list and us date of hire for the MDA seniority list. I think that would be fair, since the APL guys keep longevity at mainline and the WO's start at year one. I think that is a EVEN PLAYING FIELD!!!!!!!!
 
There is a learning curve when transitioning to a jet. We all went thru it at some point in our careers. Almost all of the captains i flew with in the late 80's at U mainline were great to fly with and i learned a great deal from alot of them. Sure, there were a few i did not particularly care for, but i made the best of it. I hope you are not coming over to MAA with that attitude !!!
WSurf said:
Should make for a fun cockpit at MDA. I heard PSA has been a real joy since the J4J guys came over..... Man I can't wait to sling a gear at MDA and listen to my Capt. telling me how to operate a Jet. Fun, Fun, where do I sign up!!!! LOL, oh.... usairways-express.com!!! I am so there....
Click to expand...
 
WSurf said:
Well, if you want a level playing field for the furloughs. Lets do this, I have no problem, and I do believe they should get longevity for pay. But on that same note, I believe that since MDA (soon to be WO:SSO does Paychecks, PDT Employ #'s and Health care provider) shouldn't all people from APL and CEL be combined into one list and us date of hire for the MDA seniority list. I think that would be fair, since the APL guys keep longevity at mainline and the WO's start at year one. I think that is a EVEN PLAYING FIELD!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Except that MDA is mainline. Only the payscale is different. As far as the FAA is concerned there is no distinction. It is just like MetroJet. All on the same 121 certificate. The FAA has not issued any 121 certificate to an airline named Mid-Atlantic.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying make the W/O's give up their senority but to have the W/O guys getting paid 36 bucks an hour more than the mainline furloughees is way out of line, especially the 12 and 13 year Airways pilots.

If you go Surfs way you must also give all the former W/O pilots that went to mainline their original W/O hire date back, or since you are wanting to use hire dates from 3 different airlines, it can also be argued that every mainline furloughee should be given his original Regional hire date back regardless of what airline that was. (Ie. Eagle, Mesaba whatever)

The J4J agreements were pretty screwed up at times, and at PSA furloughees were holding artificial Captain spots in return for the jets to more that double the size of the airline almost overnight, However every one of the PSA guys was senior to the furloughed pilots. And despite the moaning and Biatching from the PSA pilots, they have made out very well in the deal. At last count there were only 80 (not my numbers somebody elses) something furloughees left over there, and PSA is hiring like crazy to try and staff all those new shiney jets. Far better than they would have done if they still only operated 25 Do 328's. I know it is somewhat hypocritical, the way the Capt. seats went in the J4J stuff, but the bottom line is that PSA cannot operate independant of Airways. They do not have their own res centers, ticketing, support, or identity of their own. What they can do is supply their own pilots, fuel, and maint., but they would have no one to haul. To the passengers it is USAirways, I know I flew the W/O's long enough to realize that passengers never knew who we were.

But at any rate Surf, If you want to go with our original W/O hire date thats fine by me because it will add another 7 years to my seniority at MDA, on top of my 2 at Airways. And done that way if your profile is current and 3500 is your total time you would fall waaayyyy down the list by the time it got to you.
 
Last edited:
Steve 737 said:
There is a learning curve when transitioning to a jet. We all went thru it at some point in our careers. Almost all of the captains i flew with in the late 80's at U mainline were great to fly with and i learned a great deal from alot of them. Sure, there were a few i did not particularly care for, but i made the best of it. I hope you are not coming over to MAA with that attitude !!!
Click to expand...
Not to mention that 99% of the mainline furloughees has more time in jets than WSurf has total. And that last 1% were the Military fighter jocks with 2000 hours of ultra high performance jet PIC time. Not saying that the regional pilots don't have the skills but there is a learning curve. No offense, but going from a drag a$$ Dash 8 to a jet does take some guidance. Like Steve said I learned a great deal from the guys that had been doing it for a long time. Sim training under 10k and never over 250 knots doesn't help much the first time the airspeed starts shooting through 320 indicated knots at a pace you didn't think was possible, while climbing.
 
Last edited:
Okay, I have some jet time, and believe me.... Auto Throttles and fly by wire is not hard. Once you learn the right buttons to push and have a good concept of pitch and power its easy. So dont give me the learning curve deal, its all the same. The Dash 8 is a beast in itself to fly, and in some respects harder then a jet.
I am 5 year pilot a PDT, and it wouldn't bother me going straight date of hire. I have no problem with it. Seems only fair...
As for learning from your captains at mainline. Remember these won't be the same captains at MDA that you flew with at Mainline...And I doubt there are only a few if any that where ex mainline captains that will be at MDA. I know a hand full of people that got hired a US Airways from the regionals with little or no PIC Regional time! Now there left seat drivers and teaching me... wowoow.
I am not trying to create waves, its just I hear it from the PSA guys, and I know its gonna be that way at MDA...... Hope not however... G-Day
 
And watch, MDA will soon not be a part of US Airways... CEO has mentioned it several times as a WO... It will be one soon...
 
WSurf said:
Okay, I have some jet time, and believe me.... Auto Throttles and fly by wire is not hard. Once you learn the right buttons to push and have a good concept of pitch and power its easy. So dont give me the learning curve deal, its all the same. The Dash 8 is a beast in itself to fly, and in some respects harder then a jet. Don't tell me you are one of those automation slaves?!
Remember these won't be the same captains at MDA that you flew with at Mainline...And I doubt there are only a few if any that where ex mainline captains that will be at MDA. I know a hand full of people that got hired a US Airways from the regionals with little or no PIC Regional time! Now there left seat drivers and teaching me... wowoow. 800 of the furloughees are 12 and 13 year guys, All were mainline Captians. And unless you were a minority, 100% of the new Hires were Captians prior to ML. My class of 50 had 1 pilot that had 0 Jet PIC (Dash F/O, Minority) The PIC ranged from 747's ,DC-10's, on down to RJ's and Biz jets. About the only ones with 0 jet were the W/O's that didn't fly them prior to hiring with the W/O's (I don't know any, Regional mins were about 2500 TT when most of us came through. 3000 was competetive to fly a Dash. Lots of Lear freighter time required to be a shoe in, the early 90's were tough.
I am not trying to create waves, its just I hear it from the PSA guys, and I know its gonna be that way at MDA...... Hope not however... G-Day
Click to expand...
You might want to listen to someone that has been there and done it, I know it helped me a great deal and I had lots of Freight,Corporate, as well as Regional PIC. But what the heck do I know I have only been getting paid to fly for 15 or so years.
 
WSurf said:
And watch, MDA will soon not be a part of US Airways... CEO has mentioned it several times as a WO... It will be one soon...
Click to expand...
Good possibility, but not right now. The FEDS wouldn't give them another cert. Possibly dissolve ALG or PDT and use their 121. Then again, its up and running like it is and would involve huge expenditures to change now just so it can have its own 121. After all, ALPA already signed off on it like it is. A transfer to W/O status would mean more contract changes and FAA headaches.

More than likely a sell to somebody like MESA. That is the worry I keep hearing from the current MAA'ers. Far more likely than going W/O. (IMHO anyway)

Then again if Airways doesn't make it all this arguing is moot. But it sure is entertaining though!! :)
 
F/Os can have THEIR names on the bathroom walls too.

WSurf,

I think you need to update the total time in your profile. If you've been at Piedagheny for 5 years, and you have 3500 hours now, assuming you somehow beat the odds and got hired with 500 hrs TT, even THEN you only flew 600 hours a year.

And somehow in there you managed to find enough "jet" time that you dont feel you need any guidance from those who came before you.

On top of that you now somehow you feel that those 10-13 year furloughees who may not have jet-PIC dont have anything to teach you?

There's only one thing more frustrating than a CFI-Captain. It's an FO who believes he's got nothing left to learn.

I would say that nomatter WHERE you go whether it be MDA, PSA, FedEx, Southwest, or Chalks, you're going to have Captains watching over your shoulder because, if your attitude on here is indicative of your attitude on line, you're FAR too cocky.

At 3500 hours you just dont know what you just dont know.
(I found THAT out the hard way. You will too.)
 
Your right, 5 years at PDT=Over 900 hrs a year at this company. It's over 5000hrs, but I am gonna leave it. Doesn't make me feel anymore Chuck Yeager having to update it all the time.
Anyway I do believe that you are suppose to learn from the left seat guy. Thats why your in right seat, I just know from friends at PSA that its been a nightmare with the J4J guys.....
Maybe it will all work out..... Hope sooooo....
Anyway... EMB-170 question.. I see the EMB145 guys with David Clarks.. Over 200kts gets loud up there... 170 the same????
 
WSurf,


I don't doubt that there are some a$$hole out there making life hard for the PSA guys. But, you do have to look at the experience that most of the mainliners are bringing to the cockpit.

Cross sampling, no names, none are me.

1. 1989 hire date with Airways, Will be taking the MDA job(may already be there), currently at MESA. 10000 hours jet time, Flew F/O DC-9 as newbie, Made Captain on the F-28, flew it about a year, downgraded, to F/O 737, furloughed briefly (About 3 months I think) Made Captain on the 737 again in 99, flew as Captain until 01, downgraded again to Airbus F/O, furloughed mid 02. Also did a stint on the 76 somewhere in there (F/O)

2. Late 99 hire date with Airways, Prior to that was Captain on a 727 flying freight all over the world. About 2000 hours PIC 727, was regional Capt prior to that.

3. Early 00 hire date, Prior to Airways, was DC-10 Captain for World Airlines.

4. Early 00 hire date, Military, B-52 Commander, Flying C-5's as a reservist

5. Late 99 hire date, was Capt 747 (Evergreen I think, might have been Atlas, can't remember)

6 More KC-135 Commanders than you can shake a stick at in the "New 1149"

These are some that I can remember specifics on, Friends, classmates etc. But it is a representation of the average pilot hired by Airways. Not withstanding the knobs that always slip through, these will be the guys that will be your left seaters.

I don't know you, only have a profile to go by and what you have said, but it does appear that these folks may be able to give you a hint or two about converting kerosene into noise.

However I do realize that there is always a jag-off that feels that he must "Teach" commuter guys how to fly, and for that I and the rest of the Airways guy apologize. The sad thing is, I am not at PSA and I can probably tell you the name of one of the boneheads that is giving them a problem, Don't take it personal, he did the same crap to his fellow mainliners, many of whom had more experience than he did. I heard that he used to try to tell the 20 year Captains how to fly, until he was taught why it is called Captains authority!!
 
Little advise...

WSurf said:
Well, if you want a level playing field for the furloughs. Lets do this, I have no problem, and I do believe they should get longevity for pay. But on that same note, I believe that since MDA (soon to be WO:SSO does Paychecks, PDT Employ #'s and Health care provider) shouldn't all people from APL and CEL be combined into one list and us date of hire for the MDA seniority list. I think that would be fair, since the APL guys keep longevity at mainline and the WO's start at year one. I think that is a EVEN PLAYING FIELD!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
***********************************************************

Pass the ride first then you can worry about the other stuff.

Enjoy training, it was a cakewalk.

I think it is bull that the W/O pilots have to resign their number to come to MDA.
One bust and out of MDA and ALG/PDT.
Not one has failed yet but it would suck if it was a W/O pilot.

At MDA, your ALPA reps are mainline, so there are 200 votes vs. 3500 mainline pilot votes. Think you can figure that one out.
Typical ALPA, "eat their young" mentality.
 
Somehow I was under the impression that you had already changed the decision you wrote about (earlier in this old thread) and made a different intermediate/permanent decision. Am I wrong?
 
I did. I made a (hopefully) permanent decision that I am very happy with.

But I made quite a few career decisions over the last ten years that I thought/hoped were permanent. So sometimes I cant help but to second-guess myself, look back, and think "what if?".

I know that thinking that way is a foolish waste of time but (shrug) just cant help it sometimes.
 
Last edited:

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom